odinn [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: š Original date posted:2015-10-04 š Original message:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED ...
š
Original date posted:2015-10-04
š Original message:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
(Note: Due to being very tired I have issued a correction to my post
below so as to make sure I have not been misunderstood.)
odinn via bitcoin-dev:
> Hello,
>
> Some background on this....
>
>
> A very long while ago I posted to the bitcoin-development mailing
> list some ABIS concepts having to do with microdonations:
>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2013-December/
00
>
>
3791.html
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/0
04
>
>
049.html
>
> And an interesting post (which led me to explore BCN) via nullc:
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7765455 (posted 1 & 1/3 year
> ago).
(I realize the way I wrote the above paragraph made it sound like I
posted the above post at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7765455
but I just want to point out here that I did not; I meant to say that
I read an interesting post which led me to explore BCN that was
published by nullc.)
>
>
> Anyway, some long while ago this discussion came up about
> "Incentives to run full nodes," and the last post in the thread was
> here:
>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-June/0060
83
>
>
.html
>
> Since that time, some new developments have come to light which
> the participants in that thread may find interesting;
>
> Please see in part,
>
> https://bytecoin.org/news/bytecoin-wallet-1.0.8-release-introduces-mic
ro
>
>
- -donations/
>
> This presents a working implementation in BCN; the concept as
> implemented there is arguably viable in BTC as well.
>
> Please explore, play with, discuss, etc.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - O
>
> odinn:
>> Potentially relevant...
>
>> "Incentivizing the running of full nodes"
>
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-June/006
0
>
>>
28
>
>
> .html
>
>> (However, the issue to which I referred here is now closed)
>
>> View whole thread:
>
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-June/thr
e
>
>>
ad
>
>
> .html#6028
>
>> On 08/17/2015 02:44 PM, Chris Pacia via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>
>>> On Aug 17, 2015 5:29 PM, "Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev"
>>> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote: From the
>>> point of view of a
>>>> wallet, it's not very secure to use Hearn-style SPV mode, and
>>>> volunteers running full nodes doesn't help things. Sybil
>>>> attacking the IP address space is pretty easy in comparison
>>>> to aquiring hashing power sufficient to create false
>>>> confirmations, so any attacker able to do the former will
>>>> likely be running the full node you're connecting too
>>>> anyway. Ultimately, Hearn-style SPV is a close approximation
>>>> to just trusting anyone with a non-trivial amount of hashing
>>>> power. (and getting that is surprisingly easy, e.g. w/ SPV
>>>> mining)
>
>>> Can you explain how the spv node fails against an attacker with
>>> a non-trivial amount of hash power where a full node doesn't?
>>> To attack an spv wallet that is waiting for 6 or 10
>>> confirmations, you would not only need to Sybil them but also
>>> summon a massive amount of hashing power to create a chain of
>>> headers (while forgoing the opportunity to mine valid blocks
>>> with that hash power).
>
>>> But could someone with that much hash power not Sybil a full
>>> node and give them a chain for valid blocks (but on an orphan
>>> fork)? The failure model doesn't seem specific to spv to me.
>
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev
>>> mailing list bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
> list bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
- --
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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š Original message:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
(Note: Due to being very tired I have issued a correction to my post
below so as to make sure I have not been misunderstood.)
odinn via bitcoin-dev:
> Hello,
>
> Some background on this....
>
>
> A very long while ago I posted to the bitcoin-development mailing
> list some ABIS concepts having to do with microdonations:
>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2013-December/
00
>
>
3791.html
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/0
04
>
>
049.html
>
> And an interesting post (which led me to explore BCN) via nullc:
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7765455 (posted 1 & 1/3 year
> ago).
(I realize the way I wrote the above paragraph made it sound like I
posted the above post at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7765455
but I just want to point out here that I did not; I meant to say that
I read an interesting post which led me to explore BCN that was
published by nullc.)
>
>
> Anyway, some long while ago this discussion came up about
> "Incentives to run full nodes," and the last post in the thread was
> here:
>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-June/0060
83
>
>
.html
>
> Since that time, some new developments have come to light which
> the participants in that thread may find interesting;
>
> Please see in part,
>
> https://bytecoin.org/news/bytecoin-wallet-1.0.8-release-introduces-mic
ro
>
>
- -donations/
>
> This presents a working implementation in BCN; the concept as
> implemented there is arguably viable in BTC as well.
>
> Please explore, play with, discuss, etc.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - O
>
> odinn:
>> Potentially relevant...
>
>> "Incentivizing the running of full nodes"
>
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-June/006
0
>
>>
28
>
>
> .html
>
>> (However, the issue to which I referred here is now closed)
>
>> View whole thread:
>
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-June/thr
e
>
>>
ad
>
>
> .html#6028
>
>> On 08/17/2015 02:44 PM, Chris Pacia via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>
>>> On Aug 17, 2015 5:29 PM, "Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev"
>>> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> <mailto:bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote: From the
>>> point of view of a
>>>> wallet, it's not very secure to use Hearn-style SPV mode, and
>>>> volunteers running full nodes doesn't help things. Sybil
>>>> attacking the IP address space is pretty easy in comparison
>>>> to aquiring hashing power sufficient to create false
>>>> confirmations, so any attacker able to do the former will
>>>> likely be running the full node you're connecting too
>>>> anyway. Ultimately, Hearn-style SPV is a close approximation
>>>> to just trusting anyone with a non-trivial amount of hashing
>>>> power. (and getting that is surprisingly easy, e.g. w/ SPV
>>>> mining)
>
>>> Can you explain how the spv node fails against an attacker with
>>> a non-trivial amount of hash power where a full node doesn't?
>>> To attack an spv wallet that is waiting for 6 or 10
>>> confirmations, you would not only need to Sybil them but also
>>> summon a massive amount of hashing power to create a chain of
>>> headers (while forgoing the opportunity to mine valid blocks
>>> with that hash power).
>
>>> But could someone with that much hash power not Sybil a full
>>> node and give them a chain for valid blocks (but on an orphan
>>> fork)? The failure model doesn't seem specific to spv to me.
>
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev
>>> mailing list bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
> list bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
- --
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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