Alex Kotenko [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: š Original date posted:2014-03-20 š Original message:We'll see how it will go, ...
š
Original date posted:2014-03-20
š Original message:We'll see how it will go, maybe I will get to implement this somewhere soon.
Yes, I'm thinking exactly about radio MitM attacks possible with bluetooth.
I'll also look into using PKI inside the PoS for the merchant. It would be
great user experience if we would be able to provide a signed payment
request with human recognizable merchant identity name in the way you
described much earlier in Bitcoin 0.9 FAQ. ā
2014-03-20 18:31 GMT+00:00 Mike Hearn <mike at plan99.net>:
> With Java, in theory, you can use SSLSocketFactory.createSocket(btsocket,
> address, 1234, true) to wrap a bluetooth socket in SSL. However I have not
> tried it.
>
> For now, just prototype and build your product without the security. We
> can find someone to experiment with this, if you don't want to .
>
> Bluetooth needs encryption and MACs as well as signing to be secure,
> because there could be radio MITM. Yes, this overlaps somewhat with the PKI
> signing in BIP70, but not entirely - you might want to serve unsigned
> payment requests, but still have confidentiality and authenticity for a
> local face to face transaction. The signing and encryption does different
> things.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Alex Kotenko <alexykot at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, is there any other way to do it? Can we provide a signed payment
>> request and verify the sign on receiving side and this way protect from
>> bluetooth MitM attack? Quick googling showed that SSL over bluetooth isn't
>> a very well developed area, and my own skills are not enough to quickly
>> implement a reliable secure solution here.
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-20 10:36 GMT+00:00 Mike Hearn <mike at plan99.net>:
>>
>>> Encoding entire payment requests into qrcodes is definitely not the way
>>> to go. They can already be large when signed and we're just at the start of
>>> adding features.
>>>
>>> Finishing off and standardising the bluetooth support is the way to go
>>> (r=bt:mac). Andreas' app already has some support for this I believe, so
>>> Alex you could prototype with that, but we need to:
>>>
>>> 1) Add an encryption/auth layer on top, because it runs over RFCOMM
>>> sockets. The authentication would require proof of owning the Bitcoin key
>>> that's in the address part of the URI (which is needed for backwards compat
>>> anyway).
>>>
>>> 2) Write a BIP for it and make sure it's interoperable
>>>
>>> For the auth layer we could either use SSL and then just ignore the
>>> server certificate and require signing of the session public key with the
>>> Bitcoin key, which should be easy to code up but is rather heavy on the
>>> air, or roll a custom lightweight thing where we just do a basic ECDH, with
>>> the servers key being the same as the address key. But rolling such
>>> protocols is subtle and I guess it'd need to be reviewed by people familiar
>>> with such things.
>>>
>>> This feels like a good opportunity to grow the community - perhaps we
>>> can find a volunteer in the forums who enjoys crypto.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and
>>> their
>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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š Original message:We'll see how it will go, maybe I will get to implement this somewhere soon.
Yes, I'm thinking exactly about radio MitM attacks possible with bluetooth.
I'll also look into using PKI inside the PoS for the merchant. It would be
great user experience if we would be able to provide a signed payment
request with human recognizable merchant identity name in the way you
described much earlier in Bitcoin 0.9 FAQ. ā
2014-03-20 18:31 GMT+00:00 Mike Hearn <mike at plan99.net>:
> With Java, in theory, you can use SSLSocketFactory.createSocket(btsocket,
> address, 1234, true) to wrap a bluetooth socket in SSL. However I have not
> tried it.
>
> For now, just prototype and build your product without the security. We
> can find someone to experiment with this, if you don't want to .
>
> Bluetooth needs encryption and MACs as well as signing to be secure,
> because there could be radio MITM. Yes, this overlaps somewhat with the PKI
> signing in BIP70, but not entirely - you might want to serve unsigned
> payment requests, but still have confidentiality and authenticity for a
> local face to face transaction. The signing and encryption does different
> things.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Alex Kotenko <alexykot at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hmm, is there any other way to do it? Can we provide a signed payment
>> request and verify the sign on receiving side and this way protect from
>> bluetooth MitM attack? Quick googling showed that SSL over bluetooth isn't
>> a very well developed area, and my own skills are not enough to quickly
>> implement a reliable secure solution here.
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-20 10:36 GMT+00:00 Mike Hearn <mike at plan99.net>:
>>
>>> Encoding entire payment requests into qrcodes is definitely not the way
>>> to go. They can already be large when signed and we're just at the start of
>>> adding features.
>>>
>>> Finishing off and standardising the bluetooth support is the way to go
>>> (r=bt:mac). Andreas' app already has some support for this I believe, so
>>> Alex you could prototype with that, but we need to:
>>>
>>> 1) Add an encryption/auth layer on top, because it runs over RFCOMM
>>> sockets. The authentication would require proof of owning the Bitcoin key
>>> that's in the address part of the URI (which is needed for backwards compat
>>> anyway).
>>>
>>> 2) Write a BIP for it and make sure it's interoperable
>>>
>>> For the auth layer we could either use SSL and then just ignore the
>>> server certificate and require signing of the session public key with the
>>> Bitcoin key, which should be easy to code up but is rather heavy on the
>>> air, or roll a custom lightweight thing where we just do a basic ECDH, with
>>> the servers key being the same as the address key. But rolling such
>>> protocols is subtle and I guess it'd need to be reviewed by people familiar
>>> with such things.
>>>
>>> This feels like a good opportunity to grow the community - perhaps we
>>> can find a volunteer in the forums who enjoys crypto.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and
>>> their
>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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