Aaron Voisine [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2014-07-04 📝 Original message:Agreed. If the POW is most ...
📅 Original date posted:2014-07-04
📝 Original message:Agreed. If the POW is most efficient on general purpose CPUs, that
means Intel, AMD and maybe IBM would be the only entities capable of
producing competitive mining equipment.
Aaron
Aaron Voisine
breadwallet.com
On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Ron Elliott <ronaldbelliott at gmail.com> wrote:
> I feel everyone should re-read that last paragraph as it carries the most
> weight IMO.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 9:50 AM, kjj <bitcoin-devel at jerviss.org> wrote:
>>
>> Just some general comments on this topic/discussion.
>>
>> I suspect that there exist no algorithms which cannot be done better in
>> an application-specific device than in a general purpose computer. And
>> if there is such a thing, then it must necessarily perform best on one
>> specific platform, making that platform the de facto application
>> specific device.
>>
>> I'm not sure how one would go about proving or disproving that, but it
>> seems very likely to be true.
>>
>> IO-bound is exactly the same as memory bound, for devices that have
>> enough memory. 20 GB is already trivial today, and you don't really get
>> into ask-the-wife-for-permission money until you cross 128 GB. The
>> exception would be if the IO was to an oracle outside of the device's
>> control, and artificially limited in throughput. Such a centralized
>> oracle would be contrary to the goals usually stated by people thinking
>> about anti-ASIC designs, so there isn't much point.
>>
>> Keeping the algorithm simple, and ASIC-easy, has one other advantage.
>> Just about anyone can sit down and design an ASIC for SHA, for example,
>> leading to diversity in the marketplace. A harder algorithm can still
>> be made into an ASIC (or more generally into an ASD), but will require
>> more skilled designers, more expensive fabrication, etc. This actually
>> concentrates the ASIC advantage into the hands of fewer people, which
>> again, is contrary to the stated goals.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
>> Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community
>> Edition
>> Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
>> Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
>
> --
> - Ron
> end of line.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
> Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
> Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
> Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
📝 Original message:Agreed. If the POW is most efficient on general purpose CPUs, that
means Intel, AMD and maybe IBM would be the only entities capable of
producing competitive mining equipment.
Aaron
Aaron Voisine
breadwallet.com
On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Ron Elliott <ronaldbelliott at gmail.com> wrote:
> I feel everyone should re-read that last paragraph as it carries the most
> weight IMO.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 9:50 AM, kjj <bitcoin-devel at jerviss.org> wrote:
>>
>> Just some general comments on this topic/discussion.
>>
>> I suspect that there exist no algorithms which cannot be done better in
>> an application-specific device than in a general purpose computer. And
>> if there is such a thing, then it must necessarily perform best on one
>> specific platform, making that platform the de facto application
>> specific device.
>>
>> I'm not sure how one would go about proving or disproving that, but it
>> seems very likely to be true.
>>
>> IO-bound is exactly the same as memory bound, for devices that have
>> enough memory. 20 GB is already trivial today, and you don't really get
>> into ask-the-wife-for-permission money until you cross 128 GB. The
>> exception would be if the IO was to an oracle outside of the device's
>> control, and artificially limited in throughput. Such a centralized
>> oracle would be contrary to the goals usually stated by people thinking
>> about anti-ASIC designs, so there isn't much point.
>>
>> Keeping the algorithm simple, and ASIC-easy, has one other advantage.
>> Just about anyone can sit down and design an ASIC for SHA, for example,
>> leading to diversity in the marketplace. A harder algorithm can still
>> be made into an ASIC (or more generally into an ASD), but will require
>> more skilled designers, more expensive fabrication, etc. This actually
>> concentrates the ASIC advantage into the hands of fewer people, which
>> again, is contrary to the stated goals.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
>> Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community
>> Edition
>> Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
>> Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
>
> --
> - Ron
> end of line.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Open source business process management suite built on Java and Eclipse
> Turn processes into business applications with Bonita BPM Community Edition
> Quickly connect people, data, and systems into organized workflows
> Winner of BOSSIE, CODIE, OW2 and Gartner awards
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Bonitasoft
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>