Stefan Richter [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2021-11-15 📝 Original message: It seems to me there can ...
📅 Original date posted:2021-11-15
📝 Original message:
It seems to me there can be no such law unless P=NP. Which would also imply
Bitcoin is worthless.
Joost Jager <joost.jager at gmail.com> schrieb am Mo., 15. Nov. 2021, 13:44:
> One direction that I explored is to start with a statement by the user in
> this form:
>
> "If there is a route with a success probability of 50%, then I am willing
> to pay up to 1.8x the routing fee for an alternative route that has a 80%
> success probability"
>
> I like this because it isn't an abstract weight or factor. It is actually
> clear what this means.
>
> What I didn't yet succeed in is to find a model where I can plug in 50%,
> 80% and 1.8x and generalizes it to arbitrary inputs A% and B%. But it seems
> to me that there must be some probabilistic equation / law / rule / theorem
> / ... that can support this.
>
> Joost.
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 4:25 PM Joost Jager <joost.jager at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In Lightning pathfinding the two main variables to optimize for are
>> routing fee and reliability. Routing fee is concrete. It is the sat amount
>> that is paid when a payment succeeds. Reliability is a property of a route
>> that can be expressed as a probability. The probability that a route will
>> be successful.
>>
>> During pathfinding, route options are compared against each other. So for
>> example:
>>
>> Route A: fee 10 sat, success probability 50%
>> Route B: fee 20 sat, success probability 80%
>>
>> Which one is the better route? That depends on user preference. A patient
>> user will probably go for route A in the hope of saving on fees whereas for
>> a time-sensitive payment route B looks better.
>>
>> It would be great to offer this trade-off to the user in a simple way.
>> Preferably a single [0, 1] value that controls the selection process. At 0,
>> the route is only optimized for fees and probabilities are ignored
>> completely. At 1, the route is only optimized for reliability and fees are
>> ignored completely.
>>
>> But how to choose between the routes A and B for a value somewhere in
>> between 0 and 1? For example 0.5 - perfect balance between reliability and
>> fee. But what does that mean exactly?
>>
>> Anyone got an idea on how to approach this best? I am looking for a
>> simple formula to decide between routes, preferably with a reasonably sound
>> probability-theoretical basis (whatever that means).
>>
>> Joost
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lightning-dev mailing list
> Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/attachments/20211115/3533a287/attachment.html>;
📝 Original message:
It seems to me there can be no such law unless P=NP. Which would also imply
Bitcoin is worthless.
Joost Jager <joost.jager at gmail.com> schrieb am Mo., 15. Nov. 2021, 13:44:
> One direction that I explored is to start with a statement by the user in
> this form:
>
> "If there is a route with a success probability of 50%, then I am willing
> to pay up to 1.8x the routing fee for an alternative route that has a 80%
> success probability"
>
> I like this because it isn't an abstract weight or factor. It is actually
> clear what this means.
>
> What I didn't yet succeed in is to find a model where I can plug in 50%,
> 80% and 1.8x and generalizes it to arbitrary inputs A% and B%. But it seems
> to me that there must be some probabilistic equation / law / rule / theorem
> / ... that can support this.
>
> Joost.
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 4:25 PM Joost Jager <joost.jager at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In Lightning pathfinding the two main variables to optimize for are
>> routing fee and reliability. Routing fee is concrete. It is the sat amount
>> that is paid when a payment succeeds. Reliability is a property of a route
>> that can be expressed as a probability. The probability that a route will
>> be successful.
>>
>> During pathfinding, route options are compared against each other. So for
>> example:
>>
>> Route A: fee 10 sat, success probability 50%
>> Route B: fee 20 sat, success probability 80%
>>
>> Which one is the better route? That depends on user preference. A patient
>> user will probably go for route A in the hope of saving on fees whereas for
>> a time-sensitive payment route B looks better.
>>
>> It would be great to offer this trade-off to the user in a simple way.
>> Preferably a single [0, 1] value that controls the selection process. At 0,
>> the route is only optimized for fees and probabilities are ignored
>> completely. At 1, the route is only optimized for reliability and fees are
>> ignored completely.
>>
>> But how to choose between the routes A and B for a value somewhere in
>> between 0 and 1? For example 0.5 - perfect balance between reliability and
>> fee. But what does that mean exactly?
>>
>> Anyone got an idea on how to approach this best? I am looking for a
>> simple formula to decide between routes, preferably with a reasonably sound
>> probability-theoretical basis (whatever that means).
>>
>> Joost
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lightning-dev mailing list
> Lightning-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lightning-dev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/attachments/20211115/3533a287/attachment.html>;