Cezary Dziemian [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2018-02-06 📝 Original message: Thank you very much for ...
📅 Original date posted:2018-02-06
📝 Original message:
Thank you very much for answer!
This is quite good way to replace both-funding channels by such "superhub".
It would be even easier if I could open more then single channel between
both parties, but I saw this is not possible in c-lightning. Could you tell
me what is the reason and do you plan to add this possibility in the
future? In LND opening multiple channels is possible, but is this
compatible with c-lightning then?
Best Regards,
Cezary
2018-02-04 13:36 GMT+01:00 ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com>:
> Good morning Cezary,
>
>
> I think first two options are for those, who want to earn some money for
> payments fee. The option that can be interesting for for some business like
> coffee is third option. Do you agree with me?
>
> > 3. In all likelihood, some service later will offer deals like "up to
> 300mBTC receive for only 1mBTC! At least 3 months channel alive!" for new
> upcoming businesses.
>
> It seams the best option for new businesses, but what if such new business
> would like to have channel with 300mBTC on both side. Let's say this is
> ATM. The owner of ATM need to be able to receive and sending funds. Without
> possibility of both-side funding channels this is quite hard to establish
> such balanced channel. ATM owner needs to send 300 mBTC as on-side
> transaction to hub, and then hub could open channel with 600 mBTC capacity
> and send back 300mBTC to ATM owner though this new channel. This requires
> trust to hub.
>
>
> Then do not trust a single hub. Instead, have incoming 300mBTC from one
> hub, then make an outgoing 300mBTC to another hub. Encourages more hubs
> also. This also makes your node a potential routing node, improving
> network connectivity.
>
>
> I know, LN is in early stage, but I'm very surprised that both sides
> cannot fund channel. Maybe this is because at the beginning LN was
> presented with such option. The only reason are trust issues that you
> described before, or maybe there are also some technical issues to
> implement such functionality? Do you predict this will be added to BOLT and
> implemented in the future?
>
>
> There is already an issue regarding this. For now, priority is actual
> implementation of payments. Dual-funding channels can be emulated by
> having some hubbing service make channels to you, while you make a channel
> to some other hub (i.e. make two channels). Such an emulation is superior
> to dual-funding as it allows you to potentially become some alternate route
> if other routes become congested, letting you earn some small amount;
> compare this to a single dual-funding channel that, by itself, cannot be
> used to for routing.
>
> Another thing is that we can make "circular superhubs" if small groups of
> us cooperate. The smallest 3-circle superhub has 3 members A B C. A opens
> channel to B, B open channels t C, C open channels to A. Each channel is
> the same capacity. If each of you has one out-channel other than on the
> circular superhub, any of A B C can spend to any node that any of them have
> an out-channel to. Similarly, each of you can receive via any in-channel
> any of you happen to have. Join a few such small communities and you can
> be well-connected enough to send and receive reasonably seamlessly to
> anyone on the network.
>
> Regards,
> ZmnSCPxj
>
>
> Best regards,
> Cezary
>
> 2018-02-04 10:08 GMT+01:00 ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com>:
>
>> Good morning Cezary,
>>
>> > Lets say I would like to receive ln payments. How can I do this,
>> without locking funds on the other side of channel?
>>
>> 1. Do the Blockstream Store route: do it early enough, and people will
>> make channels to you, because, they want to try out Lightning Network
>> quickly.
>>
>> 2. Publish the node and contact details (IP or TOR onion service) and
>> hope people are excited enough about your product to open a channel to you.
>>
>> 3. In all likelihood, some service later will offer deals like "up to
>> 300mBTC receive for only 1mBTC! At least 3 months channel alive!" for new
>> upcoming businesses.
>>
>> 4. Ask a friend to channel to you.
>>
>> Regards,
>> ZmnSCPxj
>>
>
>
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📝 Original message:
Thank you very much for answer!
This is quite good way to replace both-funding channels by such "superhub".
It would be even easier if I could open more then single channel between
both parties, but I saw this is not possible in c-lightning. Could you tell
me what is the reason and do you plan to add this possibility in the
future? In LND opening multiple channels is possible, but is this
compatible with c-lightning then?
Best Regards,
Cezary
2018-02-04 13:36 GMT+01:00 ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com>:
> Good morning Cezary,
>
>
> I think first two options are for those, who want to earn some money for
> payments fee. The option that can be interesting for for some business like
> coffee is third option. Do you agree with me?
>
> > 3. In all likelihood, some service later will offer deals like "up to
> 300mBTC receive for only 1mBTC! At least 3 months channel alive!" for new
> upcoming businesses.
>
> It seams the best option for new businesses, but what if such new business
> would like to have channel with 300mBTC on both side. Let's say this is
> ATM. The owner of ATM need to be able to receive and sending funds. Without
> possibility of both-side funding channels this is quite hard to establish
> such balanced channel. ATM owner needs to send 300 mBTC as on-side
> transaction to hub, and then hub could open channel with 600 mBTC capacity
> and send back 300mBTC to ATM owner though this new channel. This requires
> trust to hub.
>
>
> Then do not trust a single hub. Instead, have incoming 300mBTC from one
> hub, then make an outgoing 300mBTC to another hub. Encourages more hubs
> also. This also makes your node a potential routing node, improving
> network connectivity.
>
>
> I know, LN is in early stage, but I'm very surprised that both sides
> cannot fund channel. Maybe this is because at the beginning LN was
> presented with such option. The only reason are trust issues that you
> described before, or maybe there are also some technical issues to
> implement such functionality? Do you predict this will be added to BOLT and
> implemented in the future?
>
>
> There is already an issue regarding this. For now, priority is actual
> implementation of payments. Dual-funding channels can be emulated by
> having some hubbing service make channels to you, while you make a channel
> to some other hub (i.e. make two channels). Such an emulation is superior
> to dual-funding as it allows you to potentially become some alternate route
> if other routes become congested, letting you earn some small amount;
> compare this to a single dual-funding channel that, by itself, cannot be
> used to for routing.
>
> Another thing is that we can make "circular superhubs" if small groups of
> us cooperate. The smallest 3-circle superhub has 3 members A B C. A opens
> channel to B, B open channels t C, C open channels to A. Each channel is
> the same capacity. If each of you has one out-channel other than on the
> circular superhub, any of A B C can spend to any node that any of them have
> an out-channel to. Similarly, each of you can receive via any in-channel
> any of you happen to have. Join a few such small communities and you can
> be well-connected enough to send and receive reasonably seamlessly to
> anyone on the network.
>
> Regards,
> ZmnSCPxj
>
>
> Best regards,
> Cezary
>
> 2018-02-04 10:08 GMT+01:00 ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com>:
>
>> Good morning Cezary,
>>
>> > Lets say I would like to receive ln payments. How can I do this,
>> without locking funds on the other side of channel?
>>
>> 1. Do the Blockstream Store route: do it early enough, and people will
>> make channels to you, because, they want to try out Lightning Network
>> quickly.
>>
>> 2. Publish the node and contact details (IP or TOR onion service) and
>> hope people are excited enough about your product to open a channel to you.
>>
>> 3. In all likelihood, some service later will offer deals like "up to
>> 300mBTC receive for only 1mBTC! At least 3 months channel alive!" for new
>> upcoming businesses.
>>
>> 4. Ask a friend to channel to you.
>>
>> Regards,
>> ZmnSCPxj
>>
>
>
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