ZmnSCPxj [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2019-06-14 📝 Original message: Good morning Joost, > ...
📅 Original date posted:2019-06-14
📝 Original message:
Good morning Joost,
> That is definitely a concern. It is up to senders how to interpret the received timestamps. They can decide to tolerate slight variations. Or they could just look at the difference between the in and out timestamp, abandoning the synchronization requirement altogether (a node could also just report that difference instead of two timestamps). The held duration is enough to identify a pair of nodes from which one of the nodes is responsible for the delay.
>
> Example (held durations between parenthesis):
>
> A (15 secs) -> B (14 secs) -> C (3 secs) -> D (2 secs)
>
> In this case either B or C is delaying the payment. We'd penalize the channel between B and C.
This seems better.
If B is at fault, it could lie and reduce its reported delta time, but that simply means it will be punished with A.
If C is at fault, it could lie and increase its reported delta time, but that simply means it will be punished with D.
I presume that the delta time is the time difference from when it sends `update_add_htlc` and when it receives `update_fulfill_htlc`, or when it gets an irrevocably committed `update_fail_htlc` + `revoke_and_ack`.
Is that accurate?
Unit should probably be milliseconds.
--
An alternative that comes to mind is to use active probing and tracking persistent data per node.
For each node we record two pieces of information:
1. Total imposed delay.
2. Number of attempts.
Suppose a probe or payment takes N milliseconds on a route with M nodes to fulfill or irrevocably fail at the payer.
For each node on the route, we increase Total imposed delay by N / M rounded up, and increment Number of attempts.
For error reports we can shorten the route if we get an error response that points to a specific failing node, or penalize the entire route in case of a completely undecodable error response.
When finding a route for a "real" payment, we adjust the cost of traversing a node by the ratio Total imposed delay / Number of attempts (we can avoid undefined math by starting both fields at 1).
For probes we can probably ignore this factor in order to give nodes that happened to be borked by a different slow node on the trial route another chance to exonerate their apparent slowness.
This does not need changes in the current spec.
Regards,
ZmnSCPxj
📝 Original message:
Good morning Joost,
> That is definitely a concern. It is up to senders how to interpret the received timestamps. They can decide to tolerate slight variations. Or they could just look at the difference between the in and out timestamp, abandoning the synchronization requirement altogether (a node could also just report that difference instead of two timestamps). The held duration is enough to identify a pair of nodes from which one of the nodes is responsible for the delay.
>
> Example (held durations between parenthesis):
>
> A (15 secs) -> B (14 secs) -> C (3 secs) -> D (2 secs)
>
> In this case either B or C is delaying the payment. We'd penalize the channel between B and C.
This seems better.
If B is at fault, it could lie and reduce its reported delta time, but that simply means it will be punished with A.
If C is at fault, it could lie and increase its reported delta time, but that simply means it will be punished with D.
I presume that the delta time is the time difference from when it sends `update_add_htlc` and when it receives `update_fulfill_htlc`, or when it gets an irrevocably committed `update_fail_htlc` + `revoke_and_ack`.
Is that accurate?
Unit should probably be milliseconds.
--
An alternative that comes to mind is to use active probing and tracking persistent data per node.
For each node we record two pieces of information:
1. Total imposed delay.
2. Number of attempts.
Suppose a probe or payment takes N milliseconds on a route with M nodes to fulfill or irrevocably fail at the payer.
For each node on the route, we increase Total imposed delay by N / M rounded up, and increment Number of attempts.
For error reports we can shorten the route if we get an error response that points to a specific failing node, or penalize the entire route in case of a completely undecodable error response.
When finding a route for a "real" payment, we adjust the cost of traversing a node by the ratio Total imposed delay / Number of attempts (we can avoid undefined math by starting both fields at 1).
For probes we can probably ignore this factor in order to give nodes that happened to be borked by a different slow node on the trial route another chance to exonerate their apparent slowness.
This does not need changes in the current spec.
Regards,
ZmnSCPxj