Tier Nolan [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: š Original date posted:2017-09-13 š Original message:On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at ...
š
Original date posted:2017-09-13
š Original message:On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:58 PM, michele terzi via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Pros:
>
> you gain a much faster syncing for new nodes.
> full non pruning nodes need a lot less HD space.
> dropping old history results in more difficult future chainanalysis (at
> least by small entities)
> freezing old history in one new genesis block means the chain can no
> longer be reorged prior to that point
>
Current nodes allow pruning so you can save disk space that way. Users
still need to download/verify the new blocks though.
Under your scheme, you don't need to throw the data away. Nodes can decide
how far back that they want to go.
"Fast" IBD
- download header chain from genesis (~4MB per year)
- check headers against "soft" checkpoints (every 50k blocks)
- download the UTXO set of the most recent soft checkpoint (and verify
against hash)
- download blocks starting from the most recent soft checkpoint
- node is now ready to use
- [Optional] Slowly download the remaining blocks
This requires some new protocol messages to allow requesting and send the
UTXO set, though the inv and getdata messages could be used.
If you add a new services bit, NODE_NETWORK_RECENT, then nodes can find
other nodes that have the most recent blocks. This indicates that you have
all blocks since the most recent snapshot.
The slow download doesn't have to download the blocks in order. It can
just check against the header chain. Once a node has all the blocks, it
would switch from NODE_NETWORK_RECENT to NODE_NETWORK.
(Multiple bits could be used to indicate that the node has 2 or more recent
time periods).
"Soft" checkpoints mean that re-orgs can't cause a network partition. Each
soft checkpoint is a mapping of {block_hash: utxo_hash}.
A re-org of 1 year or more would be devastating so it is probably
academic. Some people may object to centralized checkpointing and soft
checkpoints cover that objection.
full nodes with old software can no longer be fired up and sync with the
> existing network
> full nodes that went off line prior to the second fork cannot sync back
> once they turn back on line again.
>
>
This is why having archive nodes (and a way to find them) is important.
You could have a weaker requirement that nodes shouldn't delete blocks
unless they are at least 3 time periods (~3 years) old.
The software should have a setting which allows the user to specify maximum
disk space. Disk space is cheap, so it is likely that a reasonable number
of people will leave that set to infinite.
This automatically results in lots of archive nodes. Another setting could
decide how many time periods to download. 2-3 seem reasonable as a default
(or maybe infinite too).
> Addressing security concerns:
>
> being able to write a new genesis block means that an evil core has the
> power to steal/destroy/censor/whatever coins.
>
> this is possible only in theory, but not in practice. right now devs can
> misbehave with every softfork, but the community tests and inspects every
> new release.
>
Soft forks are inherently backward compatible. Coins cannot be stolen
using a soft fork. It has nothing to do with inspecting new releases.
It is possible for a majority of miners to re-write history, but that is
separate to a soft fork.
A soft fork can lock coins away. This effectively destroys the coins, but
doesn't steal them. It could be part of a extortion scheme I guess, but if
a majority of miners did that, then I think Bitcoin has bigger problems.
> the 2 forks will be tested and inspected as well so they are no more risky
> than other softforks.
>
>
For it to be a soft fork, you need to maintain archive nodes. That is the
whole point. The old network and the new network rules agree that the new
network rules are valid (and that miners only mine blocks that are valid
under the new rules). If IBD is impossible for old nodes, then that counts
as a network split.
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š Original message:On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:58 PM, michele terzi via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Pros:
>
> you gain a much faster syncing for new nodes.
> full non pruning nodes need a lot less HD space.
> dropping old history results in more difficult future chainanalysis (at
> least by small entities)
> freezing old history in one new genesis block means the chain can no
> longer be reorged prior to that point
>
Current nodes allow pruning so you can save disk space that way. Users
still need to download/verify the new blocks though.
Under your scheme, you don't need to throw the data away. Nodes can decide
how far back that they want to go.
"Fast" IBD
- download header chain from genesis (~4MB per year)
- check headers against "soft" checkpoints (every 50k blocks)
- download the UTXO set of the most recent soft checkpoint (and verify
against hash)
- download blocks starting from the most recent soft checkpoint
- node is now ready to use
- [Optional] Slowly download the remaining blocks
This requires some new protocol messages to allow requesting and send the
UTXO set, though the inv and getdata messages could be used.
If you add a new services bit, NODE_NETWORK_RECENT, then nodes can find
other nodes that have the most recent blocks. This indicates that you have
all blocks since the most recent snapshot.
The slow download doesn't have to download the blocks in order. It can
just check against the header chain. Once a node has all the blocks, it
would switch from NODE_NETWORK_RECENT to NODE_NETWORK.
(Multiple bits could be used to indicate that the node has 2 or more recent
time periods).
"Soft" checkpoints mean that re-orgs can't cause a network partition. Each
soft checkpoint is a mapping of {block_hash: utxo_hash}.
A re-org of 1 year or more would be devastating so it is probably
academic. Some people may object to centralized checkpointing and soft
checkpoints cover that objection.
full nodes with old software can no longer be fired up and sync with the
> existing network
> full nodes that went off line prior to the second fork cannot sync back
> once they turn back on line again.
>
>
This is why having archive nodes (and a way to find them) is important.
You could have a weaker requirement that nodes shouldn't delete blocks
unless they are at least 3 time periods (~3 years) old.
The software should have a setting which allows the user to specify maximum
disk space. Disk space is cheap, so it is likely that a reasonable number
of people will leave that set to infinite.
This automatically results in lots of archive nodes. Another setting could
decide how many time periods to download. 2-3 seem reasonable as a default
(or maybe infinite too).
> Addressing security concerns:
>
> being able to write a new genesis block means that an evil core has the
> power to steal/destroy/censor/whatever coins.
>
> this is possible only in theory, but not in practice. right now devs can
> misbehave with every softfork, but the community tests and inspects every
> new release.
>
Soft forks are inherently backward compatible. Coins cannot be stolen
using a soft fork. It has nothing to do with inspecting new releases.
It is possible for a majority of miners to re-write history, but that is
separate to a soft fork.
A soft fork can lock coins away. This effectively destroys the coins, but
doesn't steal them. It could be part of a extortion scheme I guess, but if
a majority of miners did that, then I think Bitcoin has bigger problems.
> the 2 forks will be tested and inspected as well so they are no more risky
> than other softforks.
>
>
For it to be a soft fork, you need to maintain archive nodes. That is the
whole point. The old network and the new network rules agree that the new
network rules are valid (and that miners only mine blocks that are valid
under the new rules). If IBD is impossible for old nodes, then that counts
as a network split.
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