Chris Priest [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2015-11-24 📝 Original message:1. Technically is it ...
📅 Original date posted:2015-11-24
📝 Original message:1. Technically is it promoting address reuse, but in this case, I
think it's OK. The primary purpose of a coalescing transaction is to
clear out *all* funds associated with one address and send them to
another address (belonging to the same owner). If you coalesce the
inputs to the same address over and over again, you an do that, but
you'll run the risk of leaking your private key.
2. I see these transactions being broadcast in the background when the
user is not planning on sending or receiving any payments. By the time
the wallet user wants to spend funds from the address, the coalescing
transaction should be sufficiently deep enough in the blockchain to
avoid re-org tomfoolery. Exchanges and payment processors who take in
payments around the clock will probably never use these transactions,
at least not on "live" addresses.
3. I never thought of that, but thats a benefit too!
On 11/24/15, Jannes Faber via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Few issues I can think of:
>
> 1. In its basic form this encourages address reuse. Unless the wildcard can
> be constructed such that it can match a whole branch of an HD wallet.
> Although I guess that would tie all those addresses together making HD moot
> to begin with.
>
> 2. Sounds pretty dangerous during reorgs. Maybe such a transaction should
> include a block height which indicates the maximum block that any utxo can
> match. With the requirement that the specified block height is at least 100
> blocks in the past. Maybe add a minimum block height as well to prevent
> unnecessary scanning (with the requirement that at least one utxo must be
> in that minimum block).
>
> 3. Seems like a nice way to the reduce utxo set. But hard to say how
> effective it would really be.
> On 25 Nov 2015 12:48 a.m., "Chris Priest via bitcoin-dev" <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> > This idea could be applied by having the wildcard signature apply to
>> > all
>> > UTXOs that are of a standard form and paid to a particular address, and
>> be
>> > a signature of some kind of message to that effect.
>>
>> I think this is true. Not *all* transactions will be able to match the
>> wildcard. For instance if someone sent some crazy smart contract tx to
>> your address, the script associated with that tx will be such that it
>> will not apply to the wildcard. Most "vanilla" utxos that I've seen
>> have the formula: OP_DUP OP_HASH160 [a hash corresponding to your
>> address] OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG". Just UTXOs in that form could
>> apply to the wildcard.
>>
>> On 11/24/15, Dave Scotese via bitcoin-dev
>> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> > What is required to spend bitcoin is that input be provided to the UTXO
>> > script that causes it to return true. What Chris is proposing breaks
>> > the
>> > programmatic nature of the requirement, replacing it with a requirement
>> > that the secret be known. Granted, the secret is the only requirement
>> > in
>> > most cases, but there is no built-in assumption that the script always
>> > requires only that secret.
>> >
>> > This idea could be applied by having the wildcard signature apply to
>> > all
>> > UTXOs that are of a standard form and paid to a particular address, and
>> be
>> > a signature of some kind of message to that effect. I imagine the cost
>> of
>> > re-scanning the UTXO set to find them all would justify a special extra
>> > mining fee for any transaction that used this opcode.
>> >
>> > Please be blunt about any of my own misunderstandings that this email
>> makes
>> > clear.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev <
>> > bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Chris Priest via bitcoin-dev <
>> >> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> **OP_CHECKWILDCARDSIGVERIFY**
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Some (minor) discussion of this idea in -wizards earlier today
>> >> starting
>> >> near near "09:50" (apologies for having no anchor links):
>> >> http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2015-11-24.log
>> >>
>> >> - Bryan
>> >> http://heybryan.org/
>> >> 1 512 203 0507
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> >> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need
>> > a
>> > techie?
>> > I own Litmocracy <http://www.litmocracy.com>; and Meme Racing
>> > <http://www.memeracing.net>; (in alpha).
>> > I'm the webmaster for The Voluntaryist <http://www.voluntaryist.com>;
>> which
>> > now accepts Bitcoin.
>> > I also code for The Dollar Vigilante <http://dollarvigilante.com/>;.
>> > "He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" - Satoshi
>> > Nakamoto
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>
📝 Original message:1. Technically is it promoting address reuse, but in this case, I
think it's OK. The primary purpose of a coalescing transaction is to
clear out *all* funds associated with one address and send them to
another address (belonging to the same owner). If you coalesce the
inputs to the same address over and over again, you an do that, but
you'll run the risk of leaking your private key.
2. I see these transactions being broadcast in the background when the
user is not planning on sending or receiving any payments. By the time
the wallet user wants to spend funds from the address, the coalescing
transaction should be sufficiently deep enough in the blockchain to
avoid re-org tomfoolery. Exchanges and payment processors who take in
payments around the clock will probably never use these transactions,
at least not on "live" addresses.
3. I never thought of that, but thats a benefit too!
On 11/24/15, Jannes Faber via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Few issues I can think of:
>
> 1. In its basic form this encourages address reuse. Unless the wildcard can
> be constructed such that it can match a whole branch of an HD wallet.
> Although I guess that would tie all those addresses together making HD moot
> to begin with.
>
> 2. Sounds pretty dangerous during reorgs. Maybe such a transaction should
> include a block height which indicates the maximum block that any utxo can
> match. With the requirement that the specified block height is at least 100
> blocks in the past. Maybe add a minimum block height as well to prevent
> unnecessary scanning (with the requirement that at least one utxo must be
> in that minimum block).
>
> 3. Seems like a nice way to the reduce utxo set. But hard to say how
> effective it would really be.
> On 25 Nov 2015 12:48 a.m., "Chris Priest via bitcoin-dev" <
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> > This idea could be applied by having the wildcard signature apply to
>> > all
>> > UTXOs that are of a standard form and paid to a particular address, and
>> be
>> > a signature of some kind of message to that effect.
>>
>> I think this is true. Not *all* transactions will be able to match the
>> wildcard. For instance if someone sent some crazy smart contract tx to
>> your address, the script associated with that tx will be such that it
>> will not apply to the wildcard. Most "vanilla" utxos that I've seen
>> have the formula: OP_DUP OP_HASH160 [a hash corresponding to your
>> address] OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG". Just UTXOs in that form could
>> apply to the wildcard.
>>
>> On 11/24/15, Dave Scotese via bitcoin-dev
>> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> > What is required to spend bitcoin is that input be provided to the UTXO
>> > script that causes it to return true. What Chris is proposing breaks
>> > the
>> > programmatic nature of the requirement, replacing it with a requirement
>> > that the secret be known. Granted, the secret is the only requirement
>> > in
>> > most cases, but there is no built-in assumption that the script always
>> > requires only that secret.
>> >
>> > This idea could be applied by having the wildcard signature apply to
>> > all
>> > UTXOs that are of a standard form and paid to a particular address, and
>> be
>> > a signature of some kind of message to that effect. I imagine the cost
>> of
>> > re-scanning the UTXO set to find them all would justify a special extra
>> > mining fee for any transaction that used this opcode.
>> >
>> > Please be blunt about any of my own misunderstandings that this email
>> makes
>> > clear.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev <
>> > bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Chris Priest via bitcoin-dev <
>> >> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> **OP_CHECKWILDCARDSIGVERIFY**
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Some (minor) discussion of this idea in -wizards earlier today
>> >> starting
>> >> near near "09:50" (apologies for having no anchor links):
>> >> http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2015-11-24.log
>> >>
>> >> - Bryan
>> >> http://heybryan.org/
>> >> 1 512 203 0507
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> >> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > I like to provide some work at no charge to prove my value. Do you need
>> > a
>> > techie?
>> > I own Litmocracy <http://www.litmocracy.com>; and Meme Racing
>> > <http://www.memeracing.net>; (in alpha).
>> > I'm the webmaster for The Voluntaryist <http://www.voluntaryist.com>;
>> which
>> > now accepts Bitcoin.
>> > I also code for The Dollar Vigilante <http://dollarvigilante.com/>;.
>> > "He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules" - Satoshi
>> > Nakamoto
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>