Fabrice Drouin [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2016-04-28 📝 Original message: Hi! On 26 April 2016 at ...
📅 Original date posted:2016-04-28
📝 Original message:
Hi!
On 26 April 2016 at 04:21, Rusty Russell <rusty at rustcorp.com.au> wrote:
> Pierre <pm+lists at acinq.fr> writes:
>> Hello,
>
> Hi Pierre!
>
> I'm glad I'm not the only one who had trouble with this. I just
> thought I was being dumb! Concurrent updates are conceptually harder
> than the previous synchronous model, unfortunately.
>
>> I am trying to understand how we should handle concurrent signatures,
>> and I am wondering if we couldn't use an ordering of some sort to
>> resolve conflicts when they occur, for example by simply comparing
>> signatures. If two nodes send each other a signature at the same time,
>> they could agree that the one that sent the "greatest" signature has
>> to immediately resend a new signature including all pending changes.
>> This new signature would encompass all the changes both parties wanted
>> in the first place so everybody would be happy.
>
> I originally had an alternating priority scheme which worked, but I don't
> think it's necessary any more.
>
> This diagram is a simplification. Each node tracks two commitment
> states: its own and the state of the other side. This is because they
> can run independently.
>
> The rules are simple (though the results might not be!):
>
> 1) Nodes must process packets in order.
> 2) When you send something, update their state.
> 3) When you ack something, update their state.
> 4) When you receive something, update your own state.
> 5) When you receive an ack for something, update your own state.
>
> When you sign a commit tx, you sign their state at the time (this makes
> sense: you're signing their commit tx, not yours).
>
> So, when a node sends an ADD HTLC, it modifies the other side's state.
> It only modifies its own state when it receives an ack covering that ADD
> HTLC.
>
> The ADD HTLC receiver modifies its own state, and modifies the other
> side's state when it sends the next ack (in practice, we do that
> immediately because it doesn't matter, but diagram below does it
> strictly).
>
> Thus, in your case:
>
> NODE A NODE B
>
> Committed: [] Committed: []
> States: [] [X] States: [] [Y]
> ADD HTLC X ---- ---- ADD HTLC Y
> \ /
> \ /
> Committed: [] \ / Committed: []
> States: [] [X] \/ States: [] [Y]
> SIG A0 --- /\ --- SIG B0
> \ / \ /
> \/ \/
> /\ /\
> <--- \ / --->
> Committed: [] \/ Committed: []
> States: [Y] [X] /\ States: [X] [Y]
> / \
> / \
> <---- ----->
> Committed: [Y] Committed: [X]
> States: [Y] [X] States: [X] [Y]
>
> Now, at this point both nodes have outstanding changes, so they can send
> another SIG (which acks the received changes, thus modifying the other
> state):
>
> Committed: [Y] Committed: [X]
> States: [Y] [X Y] States: [X] [X Y]
> SIG A1 --- --- SIG B1
> \ /
> \ /
> \ /
> \ /
> \/
> /\
> / \
> / \
> <---- ----->
> PROCESS ACK:
> Committed: [Y] Committed: [X]
> States: [X Y] [X Y] States: [X Y] [X Y]
> PROCESS SIG:
> Committed: [X Y] Committed: [X Y]
> States: [X Y] [X Y] States: [X Y] [X Y]
>
What if instead of immediately sending a new SIG, A and B then decide
to send each
other a new HTLC? Could we get stuck in an infinite loop where A and B
never converge on a
commitment tx?
Or should it be specified that the only valid answer to a signature is
either a signature (if there
are outstanding changes) or a revocation ?
Cheers,
Fabrice
📝 Original message:
Hi!
On 26 April 2016 at 04:21, Rusty Russell <rusty at rustcorp.com.au> wrote:
> Pierre <pm+lists at acinq.fr> writes:
>> Hello,
>
> Hi Pierre!
>
> I'm glad I'm not the only one who had trouble with this. I just
> thought I was being dumb! Concurrent updates are conceptually harder
> than the previous synchronous model, unfortunately.
>
>> I am trying to understand how we should handle concurrent signatures,
>> and I am wondering if we couldn't use an ordering of some sort to
>> resolve conflicts when they occur, for example by simply comparing
>> signatures. If two nodes send each other a signature at the same time,
>> they could agree that the one that sent the "greatest" signature has
>> to immediately resend a new signature including all pending changes.
>> This new signature would encompass all the changes both parties wanted
>> in the first place so everybody would be happy.
>
> I originally had an alternating priority scheme which worked, but I don't
> think it's necessary any more.
>
> This diagram is a simplification. Each node tracks two commitment
> states: its own and the state of the other side. This is because they
> can run independently.
>
> The rules are simple (though the results might not be!):
>
> 1) Nodes must process packets in order.
> 2) When you send something, update their state.
> 3) When you ack something, update their state.
> 4) When you receive something, update your own state.
> 5) When you receive an ack for something, update your own state.
>
> When you sign a commit tx, you sign their state at the time (this makes
> sense: you're signing their commit tx, not yours).
>
> So, when a node sends an ADD HTLC, it modifies the other side's state.
> It only modifies its own state when it receives an ack covering that ADD
> HTLC.
>
> The ADD HTLC receiver modifies its own state, and modifies the other
> side's state when it sends the next ack (in practice, we do that
> immediately because it doesn't matter, but diagram below does it
> strictly).
>
> Thus, in your case:
>
> NODE A NODE B
>
> Committed: [] Committed: []
> States: [] [X] States: [] [Y]
> ADD HTLC X ---- ---- ADD HTLC Y
> \ /
> \ /
> Committed: [] \ / Committed: []
> States: [] [X] \/ States: [] [Y]
> SIG A0 --- /\ --- SIG B0
> \ / \ /
> \/ \/
> /\ /\
> <--- \ / --->
> Committed: [] \/ Committed: []
> States: [Y] [X] /\ States: [X] [Y]
> / \
> / \
> <---- ----->
> Committed: [Y] Committed: [X]
> States: [Y] [X] States: [X] [Y]
>
> Now, at this point both nodes have outstanding changes, so they can send
> another SIG (which acks the received changes, thus modifying the other
> state):
>
> Committed: [Y] Committed: [X]
> States: [Y] [X Y] States: [X] [X Y]
> SIG A1 --- --- SIG B1
> \ /
> \ /
> \ /
> \ /
> \/
> /\
> / \
> / \
> <---- ----->
> PROCESS ACK:
> Committed: [Y] Committed: [X]
> States: [X Y] [X Y] States: [X Y] [X Y]
> PROCESS SIG:
> Committed: [X Y] Committed: [X Y]
> States: [X Y] [X Y] States: [X Y] [X Y]
>
What if instead of immediately sending a new SIG, A and B then decide
to send each
other a new HTLC? Could we get stuck in an infinite loop where A and B
never converge on a
commitment tx?
Or should it be specified that the only valid answer to a signature is
either a signature (if there
are outstanding changes) or a revocation ?
Cheers,
Fabrice