Richard Moore [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2015-06-30 📝 Original message:I’m not planning to take ...
📅 Original date posted:2015-06-30
📝 Original message:I’m not planning to take a firm stance against or for, but one problem with your analogy is that airplanes [currently] are not elastic (until we get TARDIS technology, or semi-TARDIS-like technology); they take up space and resources proportional to their capacity.
It is not the block size that is increasing, it is the *maximum* block size… So, it’s more like saying the *maximum* airplane size is increasing, which I think may be somewhat true (although, I agree, probably not exponentially). It would be more like an airplane whose capacity was doubling every two years, but would shrink when that extra capacity was not needed and only consume the maintenance, fuel, et cetera needed for its current size.
My semi-firm-ish stance is that kicking the can down the road with a static increase is less better. We can always soft-fork the limit down if the *actual* block size is growing too fast. When (and/or if) we need to. I also think 8MB is a rather large jump, for either static or dynamic.
*shrug*
RicMoo
> On Jun 30, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Michael Naber <mickeybob at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As you know I'm trying to lobby for a block size increase to a static 8MB.
>
> I'm happy to try to get the testing done that people want done for this, but I think the real crux of this issue is that we need to get consensus that we intend to continually push the block size upward as bounded only by technology.
>
> Imagine an engineer (Gavin) at Boeing (Bitcoin Core) said he was going to build an airplane (block) that was going to move 8x as many people (transactions) as today’s planes (blocks), all while costing about the same amount to operate. Imagine he then went on to tell you that he expects to double the plane’s (block's) capacity every two years!
>
> Without full planes (blocks), will the airlines (miners) go out of business, since planes (blocks) will never be full and the cost to add people (transactions) to a plane (block) will approach zero? Probably not. Airlines (miners) still have to pay for pilots, security screening staff, fuel, etc (engineers, hash rate, electricity, etc) so even if their airplanes (blocks) can hold limitless people (transactions), they would still have to charge sufficient fees to stay in business.
>
> What tests do you need done to move to 8MB? Pitch in and help get those tests done; agree that we'll run more tests next year or the year after when technology might allow for 16 MB blocks. Do you really want to be the guy holding back bigger planes? Do you really want to artificially constrain block size below what technology allows?
>
> In the face of such strong market demand for increased capacity in globally aware global consensus, do you really think you can prevent supply from meeting demand when the technology exists to deliver it? Do you really want to force a fork because you and others won't agree to a simple raise to a static 8MB?
>
> Do what's best for Bitcoin and define what needs to get done to agree to a simple block size increase to a static 8MB.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(((º>
Richard Moore ~ Founder
Genetic Mistakes Software inc.
phone: (778) 882-6125
email: ricmoo at geneticmistakes.com <mailto:ricmoo at geneticmistakes.com>
www: http://GeneticMistakes.com <http://geneticmistakes.com/>;
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📝 Original message:I’m not planning to take a firm stance against or for, but one problem with your analogy is that airplanes [currently] are not elastic (until we get TARDIS technology, or semi-TARDIS-like technology); they take up space and resources proportional to their capacity.
It is not the block size that is increasing, it is the *maximum* block size… So, it’s more like saying the *maximum* airplane size is increasing, which I think may be somewhat true (although, I agree, probably not exponentially). It would be more like an airplane whose capacity was doubling every two years, but would shrink when that extra capacity was not needed and only consume the maintenance, fuel, et cetera needed for its current size.
My semi-firm-ish stance is that kicking the can down the road with a static increase is less better. We can always soft-fork the limit down if the *actual* block size is growing too fast. When (and/or if) we need to. I also think 8MB is a rather large jump, for either static or dynamic.
*shrug*
RicMoo
> On Jun 30, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Michael Naber <mickeybob at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As you know I'm trying to lobby for a block size increase to a static 8MB.
>
> I'm happy to try to get the testing done that people want done for this, but I think the real crux of this issue is that we need to get consensus that we intend to continually push the block size upward as bounded only by technology.
>
> Imagine an engineer (Gavin) at Boeing (Bitcoin Core) said he was going to build an airplane (block) that was going to move 8x as many people (transactions) as today’s planes (blocks), all while costing about the same amount to operate. Imagine he then went on to tell you that he expects to double the plane’s (block's) capacity every two years!
>
> Without full planes (blocks), will the airlines (miners) go out of business, since planes (blocks) will never be full and the cost to add people (transactions) to a plane (block) will approach zero? Probably not. Airlines (miners) still have to pay for pilots, security screening staff, fuel, etc (engineers, hash rate, electricity, etc) so even if their airplanes (blocks) can hold limitless people (transactions), they would still have to charge sufficient fees to stay in business.
>
> What tests do you need done to move to 8MB? Pitch in and help get those tests done; agree that we'll run more tests next year or the year after when technology might allow for 16 MB blocks. Do you really want to be the guy holding back bigger planes? Do you really want to artificially constrain block size below what technology allows?
>
> In the face of such strong market demand for increased capacity in globally aware global consensus, do you really think you can prevent supply from meeting demand when the technology exists to deliver it? Do you really want to force a fork because you and others won't agree to a simple raise to a static 8MB?
>
> Do what's best for Bitcoin and define what needs to get done to agree to a simple block size increase to a static 8MB.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(((º>
Richard Moore ~ Founder
Genetic Mistakes Software inc.
phone: (778) 882-6125
email: ricmoo at geneticmistakes.com <mailto:ricmoo at geneticmistakes.com>
www: http://GeneticMistakes.com <http://geneticmistakes.com/>;
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