Billy Tetrud [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2022-03-16 📝 Original message:> The constants table ...
📅 Original date posted:2022-03-16
📝 Original message:> The constants table would be part of the SCRIPT puzzle
Ah I see what you're saying now. You're not talking about referencing
inputs from the spender, but rather constants for the script writer to
parameterize a jet with. TBH I think both would be useful, and both could
potentially be done in the same way (ie reference their position in the
script before any evaluation starts). I think your idea is a good one.
Cheers
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 10:39 AM ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com> wrote:
> Good morning Billy,
>
> > > I think we would want to have a cleanstack rule at some point
> >
> > Ah is this a rule where a script shouldn't validate if more than just a
> true is left on the stack? I can see how that would prevent the
> non-soft-fork version of what I'm proposing.
>
> Yes.
> There was also an even stronger cleanstack rule where the stack and alt
> stack are totally empty.
> This is because a SCRIPT really just returns "valid" or "invalid", and
> `OP_VERIFY` can be trivially appended to a SCRIPT that leaves a single
> stack item to convert to a SCRIPT that leaves no stack items and retains
> the same behavior.
>
> >
> > > How large is the critical mass needed?
> >
> > Well it seems we've agreed that were we going to do this, we would want
> to at least do a soft-fork to make known jet scripts lighter weight (and
> unknown jet scripts not-heavier) than their non-jet counterparts. So given
> a situation where this soft fork happens, and someone wants to implement a
> new jet, how much critical mass would be needed for the network to get some
> benefit from the jet? Well, the absolute minimum for some benefit to happen
> is that two nodes that support that jet are connected. In such a case, one
> node can send that jet scripted transaction along without sending the data
> of what the jet stands for. The jet itself is pretty small, like 2 or so
> bytes. So that does impose a small additional cost on nodes that don't
> support a jet. For 100,000 nodes, that means 200,000 bytes of transmission
> would need to be saved for a jet to break even. So if the jet stands for a
> 22 byte script, it would break even when 10% of the network supported it.
> If the jet stood for a 102 byte script, it would break even when 2% of the
> network supported it. So how much critical mass is necessary for it to be
> worth it depends on what the script is.
>
> The math seems reasonable.
>
>
> > The question I have is: where would the constants table come from? Would
> it reference the original positions of items on the witness stack?
>
> The constants table would be part of the SCRIPT puzzle, and thus not in
> the witness solution.
> I imagine the SCRIPT would be divided into two parts: (1) a table of
> constants and (2) the actual opcodes to execute.
>
>
> Regards,
> ZmnSCPxj
>
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📝 Original message:> The constants table would be part of the SCRIPT puzzle
Ah I see what you're saying now. You're not talking about referencing
inputs from the spender, but rather constants for the script writer to
parameterize a jet with. TBH I think both would be useful, and both could
potentially be done in the same way (ie reference their position in the
script before any evaluation starts). I think your idea is a good one.
Cheers
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 10:39 AM ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj at protonmail.com> wrote:
> Good morning Billy,
>
> > > I think we would want to have a cleanstack rule at some point
> >
> > Ah is this a rule where a script shouldn't validate if more than just a
> true is left on the stack? I can see how that would prevent the
> non-soft-fork version of what I'm proposing.
>
> Yes.
> There was also an even stronger cleanstack rule where the stack and alt
> stack are totally empty.
> This is because a SCRIPT really just returns "valid" or "invalid", and
> `OP_VERIFY` can be trivially appended to a SCRIPT that leaves a single
> stack item to convert to a SCRIPT that leaves no stack items and retains
> the same behavior.
>
> >
> > > How large is the critical mass needed?
> >
> > Well it seems we've agreed that were we going to do this, we would want
> to at least do a soft-fork to make known jet scripts lighter weight (and
> unknown jet scripts not-heavier) than their non-jet counterparts. So given
> a situation where this soft fork happens, and someone wants to implement a
> new jet, how much critical mass would be needed for the network to get some
> benefit from the jet? Well, the absolute minimum for some benefit to happen
> is that two nodes that support that jet are connected. In such a case, one
> node can send that jet scripted transaction along without sending the data
> of what the jet stands for. The jet itself is pretty small, like 2 or so
> bytes. So that does impose a small additional cost on nodes that don't
> support a jet. For 100,000 nodes, that means 200,000 bytes of transmission
> would need to be saved for a jet to break even. So if the jet stands for a
> 22 byte script, it would break even when 10% of the network supported it.
> If the jet stood for a 102 byte script, it would break even when 2% of the
> network supported it. So how much critical mass is necessary for it to be
> worth it depends on what the script is.
>
> The math seems reasonable.
>
>
> > The question I have is: where would the constants table come from? Would
> it reference the original positions of items on the witness stack?
>
> The constants table would be part of the SCRIPT puzzle, and thus not in
> the witness solution.
> I imagine the SCRIPT would be divided into two parts: (1) a table of
> constants and (2) the actual opcodes to execute.
>
>
> Regards,
> ZmnSCPxj
>
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