🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 on Nostr: npub1g2epq…pmtng I believe you and I are at odds on one thing - I believe that ...
npub1g2epq8pjulenshj4akvu3wz0aapjg4gjy8hzatnwmyhdgm7ewals6pmtng (npub1g2e…mtng) I believe you and I are at odds on one thing - I believe that Israel DOES have the right to exist. Jews were living in Palestine for centuries prior to the “British Occupancy”… They may or may not have had control of their government, and they may or may not have had a voice in their government (vis a vis the British), etc, but Jews have lived in that region for more than three millennia.
See what you just explained to me is a reason why “Jews have a right to continue to live in the area”… they do.. that isnt the same as saying they have a right to take away the land from others and call it their own simply because they have been living there a while.
There were jews in palestine for a long while, I completely agree those jews that have been there for many generations, and even the ones born there now, have a right to be there, its just, as part of palestine… What they dont have a right to do is take palestine for themselves and kick everyone else out.
Thats why in my solution israel citizens would have a right to stay, but only by being absorbed by palestine and participating in their democracy, The creation of a Jewish State in that region was a direct result of the atrocities perpetrated on Jews by the Nazis in Germany and the Fascista is Italy. The world decided Jews needed their own country.
If the world decided that then the only country they may have had a right to give them was germany.
I think your britsh, or maybe american? How would you feel if the UN decided that british/USA is now split, down the middle, and half of it will go to ukranians because of their abuse? Obviously britain would object, but hey the world decided right?
No one can make that decision except for the people of a country… so the UN, someone who had no authrotiy to give away palestine, was illegitimate in making that decision… Nothing short of a vote from palestinians themselves would have made it a valid decision in my eyes. Would you be willing to give up Philly and all the land around it for 100 miles so that Israel can move in there? No? How about NYC? Rome?
No because the same reason giving away palestine was wrong so is giving up NYC or anywhere else.. the truth is, jews have a home, its wherever those jews lived.. after the holocause they should have went bac to their homes or immigrated through normal means… I can list tons of religions who dont have a country of their own, are we supposed to kick people out of other countries and give them all a home? No… not every group has a country of their own, thats ok. Your point that “Jews weren’t there” is proved false by the census data you yourself provided. Jews WERE there, and have been for over 3,000 years.
I didnt say jews werent there (if i did i mispoke).. I said israelis werent there… PAlestinian jews are perfectly valid and should have been allowed to remain palistinians. It was when the jews decided to invade, as outsiders, and take the land as Isralis that it was wrong, and no isralis were not there. Your point that a foreign power’s (Britain’s) abuse was an invasion is correct, however, at the time the Israeli government was formed, there was no Palestinian government. Israel’s legitimacy was created by the League of Nations at the time, and they were dumped into a region which had no government.
The very existance of a people on a land makes a government. It may be a libertarian government (in the sense that there is no central authority) but that does not make the peoples claim to the land any less legitimate. In fact the idea that someone can come in and just take land simply because a people dont want nor need a centra government is a horrible piece of logic. I’ve got blood on both sides of this war. Israel isn’t blameless, and neither are those acting in the name of Palestine. Just as the U.S. is guilty of atrocities, and every other government in existence, I condemn the atrocities, but the atrocities do not change whether that government has a right to govern until the world decides to take those countries to war.
I agree, having attrocities in your past doesnt determine if you have a right to govern… The reason the Israeli government has not right is because they are the invading and occupying force.. palestine (as a united nation with both jews and arabs present) is the legitimate and occupied government. Israel’s government is legitimate - because the rest of the world didn’t want Jews in their countries, because there was no existing government in the region at the time, and because of longevity.
No you dont get to boot people from their country because their form of government isnt centralized enough for you… not at all. And you now want to boot modern Jews out of their own homes - the only homes they’ve known for 4 generations? and make Germany pay for it?
No I gave two paths as options 1) if they dont want to live in palestine they can leave (funded by germans/israel) yes they can be “booted” or 2) they have a right to stay but they must stay under the government of palestine and go through the proper legal channels to become citizens of that government.
npub1jflcdvljl0n8hlz27798d0044rxwkqz69gapvcctt4p4gdt4kasqjgfmdd (npub1jfl…fmdd)
See what you just explained to me is a reason why “Jews have a right to continue to live in the area”… they do.. that isnt the same as saying they have a right to take away the land from others and call it their own simply because they have been living there a while.
There were jews in palestine for a long while, I completely agree those jews that have been there for many generations, and even the ones born there now, have a right to be there, its just, as part of palestine… What they dont have a right to do is take palestine for themselves and kick everyone else out.
Thats why in my solution israel citizens would have a right to stay, but only by being absorbed by palestine and participating in their democracy, The creation of a Jewish State in that region was a direct result of the atrocities perpetrated on Jews by the Nazis in Germany and the Fascista is Italy. The world decided Jews needed their own country.
If the world decided that then the only country they may have had a right to give them was germany.
I think your britsh, or maybe american? How would you feel if the UN decided that british/USA is now split, down the middle, and half of it will go to ukranians because of their abuse? Obviously britain would object, but hey the world decided right?
No one can make that decision except for the people of a country… so the UN, someone who had no authrotiy to give away palestine, was illegitimate in making that decision… Nothing short of a vote from palestinians themselves would have made it a valid decision in my eyes. Would you be willing to give up Philly and all the land around it for 100 miles so that Israel can move in there? No? How about NYC? Rome?
No because the same reason giving away palestine was wrong so is giving up NYC or anywhere else.. the truth is, jews have a home, its wherever those jews lived.. after the holocause they should have went bac to their homes or immigrated through normal means… I can list tons of religions who dont have a country of their own, are we supposed to kick people out of other countries and give them all a home? No… not every group has a country of their own, thats ok. Your point that “Jews weren’t there” is proved false by the census data you yourself provided. Jews WERE there, and have been for over 3,000 years.
I didnt say jews werent there (if i did i mispoke).. I said israelis werent there… PAlestinian jews are perfectly valid and should have been allowed to remain palistinians. It was when the jews decided to invade, as outsiders, and take the land as Isralis that it was wrong, and no isralis were not there. Your point that a foreign power’s (Britain’s) abuse was an invasion is correct, however, at the time the Israeli government was formed, there was no Palestinian government. Israel’s legitimacy was created by the League of Nations at the time, and they were dumped into a region which had no government.
The very existance of a people on a land makes a government. It may be a libertarian government (in the sense that there is no central authority) but that does not make the peoples claim to the land any less legitimate. In fact the idea that someone can come in and just take land simply because a people dont want nor need a centra government is a horrible piece of logic. I’ve got blood on both sides of this war. Israel isn’t blameless, and neither are those acting in the name of Palestine. Just as the U.S. is guilty of atrocities, and every other government in existence, I condemn the atrocities, but the atrocities do not change whether that government has a right to govern until the world decides to take those countries to war.
I agree, having attrocities in your past doesnt determine if you have a right to govern… The reason the Israeli government has not right is because they are the invading and occupying force.. palestine (as a united nation with both jews and arabs present) is the legitimate and occupied government. Israel’s government is legitimate - because the rest of the world didn’t want Jews in their countries, because there was no existing government in the region at the time, and because of longevity.
No you dont get to boot people from their country because their form of government isnt centralized enough for you… not at all. And you now want to boot modern Jews out of their own homes - the only homes they’ve known for 4 generations? and make Germany pay for it?
No I gave two paths as options 1) if they dont want to live in palestine they can leave (funded by germans/israel) yes they can be “booted” or 2) they have a right to stay but they must stay under the government of palestine and go through the proper legal channels to become citizens of that government.
npub1jflcdvljl0n8hlz27798d0044rxwkqz69gapvcctt4p4gdt4kasqjgfmdd (npub1jfl…fmdd)