neo on Nostr: Looked it up again, here is the quote from the podcast (From Citadel Dispatch: CD144: ...
Looked it up again, here is the quote from the podcast (From Citadel Dispatch: CD144: CASHU WITH CALLE, Nov 18, 2024):
Awesome. Before we get to my last topic, I see a comment from Musashi in the live chat that I'm curious as well. If you restore a wallet with cashew.me, like using the seed words, can you run two different instances of the same wallet?
Yeah. So this will be a PTSD-inducing question for Bitcoin on-chain wallet debts, because it's the same issue with Bitcoin on-chain wallet. So the issue is if you have a Bitcoin wallet and a seed phrase, and you import that seed phrase in a different wallet, and then you use both wallets at the same time, you're fucked.
Like you're not fucked, but your wallets will think like, what's going on?
You don't lose money, but like the interface starts getting janky and doesn't show the right balances.
Yeah, it starts glitching, because the one wallet doesn't know about the other wallet, and they're now working with the same money basically, and doing their own thing. So to come to the answer to that question, right now in Cashier.me, when you open the wallet, it generates a seed phrase for you, and then you have an option to restore from a seed phrase, where you have to enter a seed phrase as well. So when you go to that screen and you enter the seed phrase to restore eCash, it restores to your current seed phrase.
So it doesn't use two seed phrases at the same time. You can only enter a seed phrase to restore the coins from that seed phrase, but once you use the coins, they are not bound to that seed phrase anymore. They become bound to the actual seed phrase of the wallet.
So you don't run into this issue where you could have two wallets with the same seed phrase on two different devices and produce these problems of inconsistencies.
Are you... Yeah, I thought that was what the answer was. Are you working on some kind of solution for multi-instance?
Like, just an example, like my dad... I've gotten my whole family on to Signal. And the key way I did that was that was the only way they were going to get baby photos.
But like a major blocker for him for a while was that you couldn't use Signal on iPad and on, like for whatever reason, people just expect to have like multi-device same instances support. Is that untenable on Cashew or is there a way to do it?
You just haven't figured it out yet. I think that's one of the hardest questions. And the most important questions actually going forward in terms of UX is you want the same money on multiple devices, and it's so much harder than you can imagine.
So one way of doing that, and that's actually goes to, credit's go to Pablo, is Nip60. And it's so cool to say that the closest thing to achieving that, to have the same wallet on two different devices, is using synchronization of that wallet using Nostr. Right now, it's Nip60.
And with Nip60, you essentially store your eCash on a Nostr relay, and that becomes a source of truth. So you have these two wallets that just subscribe to events on a Nostr relay, and when you receive money, both of them get an event and get the new eCash in, and when you send money, both of them get an event and get the eCash out. And so you can try to synchronize them at the same time.
To be completely precise, like if you have two wallets racing each other and trying to spend the same eCash at the same time, like one of them will fail and the other one will succeed because they might not have been able to synchronize exactly on the lock and exactly at the time. But like who cares, there's just one error, the wallet can recover from that error and everything is okay. So I think we're getting to a place where this becomes more and more possible.
Awesome. Before we get to my last topic, I see a comment from Musashi in the live chat that I'm curious as well. If you restore a wallet with cashew.me, like using the seed words, can you run two different instances of the same wallet?
Yeah. So this will be a PTSD-inducing question for Bitcoin on-chain wallet debts, because it's the same issue with Bitcoin on-chain wallet. So the issue is if you have a Bitcoin wallet and a seed phrase, and you import that seed phrase in a different wallet, and then you use both wallets at the same time, you're fucked.
Like you're not fucked, but your wallets will think like, what's going on?
You don't lose money, but like the interface starts getting janky and doesn't show the right balances.
Yeah, it starts glitching, because the one wallet doesn't know about the other wallet, and they're now working with the same money basically, and doing their own thing. So to come to the answer to that question, right now in Cashier.me, when you open the wallet, it generates a seed phrase for you, and then you have an option to restore from a seed phrase, where you have to enter a seed phrase as well. So when you go to that screen and you enter the seed phrase to restore eCash, it restores to your current seed phrase.
So it doesn't use two seed phrases at the same time. You can only enter a seed phrase to restore the coins from that seed phrase, but once you use the coins, they are not bound to that seed phrase anymore. They become bound to the actual seed phrase of the wallet.
So you don't run into this issue where you could have two wallets with the same seed phrase on two different devices and produce these problems of inconsistencies.
Are you... Yeah, I thought that was what the answer was. Are you working on some kind of solution for multi-instance?
Like, just an example, like my dad... I've gotten my whole family on to Signal. And the key way I did that was that was the only way they were going to get baby photos.
But like a major blocker for him for a while was that you couldn't use Signal on iPad and on, like for whatever reason, people just expect to have like multi-device same instances support. Is that untenable on Cashew or is there a way to do it?
You just haven't figured it out yet. I think that's one of the hardest questions. And the most important questions actually going forward in terms of UX is you want the same money on multiple devices, and it's so much harder than you can imagine.
So one way of doing that, and that's actually goes to, credit's go to Pablo, is Nip60. And it's so cool to say that the closest thing to achieving that, to have the same wallet on two different devices, is using synchronization of that wallet using Nostr. Right now, it's Nip60.
And with Nip60, you essentially store your eCash on a Nostr relay, and that becomes a source of truth. So you have these two wallets that just subscribe to events on a Nostr relay, and when you receive money, both of them get an event and get the new eCash in, and when you send money, both of them get an event and get the eCash out. And so you can try to synchronize them at the same time.
To be completely precise, like if you have two wallets racing each other and trying to spend the same eCash at the same time, like one of them will fail and the other one will succeed because they might not have been able to synchronize exactly on the lock and exactly at the time. But like who cares, there's just one error, the wallet can recover from that error and everything is okay. So I think we're getting to a place where this becomes more and more possible.