Amir Taaki [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2012-01-29 📝 Original message:(oops sorry greg- replied ...
📅 Original date posted:2012-01-29
📝 Original message:(oops sorry greg- replied to you by mistake)
That address he gives is 77 characters/bytes (same thing). What I'm asking is how can it be so small. I know that it's encoding a script, but then I started trying to imagine what kind of script and to me it seems that 2 public keys are too large for those 77 characters when encoded.
That is the example quoted on the forums:
57HrrfEw6ZgRS58dygiHhfN7vVhaPaBE7HrrfEw6ZgRS58dygiHhfN7vVhaPaBiTE7vVhaPaBE7Hr
Could it be a mistake?
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com>
To: Amir Taaki <zgenjix at yahoo.com>
Cc: "bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net" <bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Quote on BIP 16
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Amir Taaki <zgenjix at yahoo.com> wrote:
> How could you have a 70 byte long address without a P2SH scheme? Is this a mistake?
... No it's not a mistake. P2SH _prevents_ needing long addresses.
Lets unpack the acronym "pay to script _hash_". Hashes only need to
be 128-256 bits in size or so to have acceptable security, so you
don't need something longer than that for paying to a hash.
Note that gavin is saying 70 characters, not bytes.
Without some form of P2SH then only way for you to make a personal
choice of asking people to pay to a two-factor protected account or
two a multiparty trust that manages the finances of an organization
is using some form of "P2S", pay-to-script.
In other words, you'd have to have an address that encodes a full
script specification for the sender to pay to, instead of just
encoding its hash. As a result these addresses would be much longer
(and potentially very long).
The minimum size of a two address involving encoded script would be on
that order, but they get bigger quite quickly if you add more options
to the script (actually 70 sounds quite small, it should be more like
100 for a minimum two pubkey script).
In addition to the unworkability of very long addresses as described
by gavin (amusingly I am unable to copy and paste the quoted example
in one go) a P2S solution has several problems which you might
consider more or less important:
(1) They are highly vulnerable to invisible substitution. E.g. I can
trivially take a P2S address, change one or two characters and get a
script which is redeemable by anyone. With P2SH you have to do
computation which is exponential in the number of unchanged digits to
get a look alike address.
(2) The sender is fully responsible for fees related to the enlarged
transactions. Even if _you're_ willing to take the txn-processing time
and fee burden of a 30 person joint trust address, random e-commerce
sites will not be and will randomly reject your addresses.
(3) They create another input vector for non-trivial data which must
be inspected and validated, potentially presenting an attack surface.
(4) They leave the complicated (long) release rules in the transaction
outputs. When a transaction is mined we can't be sure if it will ever
be redeemed. The outputs are unprunable. In a future world where
many nodes prune output space is far more important than input space
and it would make sense to require more fees for it because we're
never sure how long it would need to be stored (making it an
attractive target for someone who wants to make Bitcoin unusable by
spamming it with worthless data). P2SH reduces output sizes to the
absolute minimum without inflating the total data size.
📝 Original message:(oops sorry greg- replied to you by mistake)
That address he gives is 77 characters/bytes (same thing). What I'm asking is how can it be so small. I know that it's encoding a script, but then I started trying to imagine what kind of script and to me it seems that 2 public keys are too large for those 77 characters when encoded.
That is the example quoted on the forums:
57HrrfEw6ZgRS58dygiHhfN7vVhaPaBE7HrrfEw6ZgRS58dygiHhfN7vVhaPaBiTE7vVhaPaBE7Hr
Could it be a mistake?
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell at gmail.com>
To: Amir Taaki <zgenjix at yahoo.com>
Cc: "bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net" <bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Quote on BIP 16
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Amir Taaki <zgenjix at yahoo.com> wrote:
> How could you have a 70 byte long address without a P2SH scheme? Is this a mistake?
... No it's not a mistake. P2SH _prevents_ needing long addresses.
Lets unpack the acronym "pay to script _hash_". Hashes only need to
be 128-256 bits in size or so to have acceptable security, so you
don't need something longer than that for paying to a hash.
Note that gavin is saying 70 characters, not bytes.
Without some form of P2SH then only way for you to make a personal
choice of asking people to pay to a two-factor protected account or
two a multiparty trust that manages the finances of an organization
is using some form of "P2S", pay-to-script.
In other words, you'd have to have an address that encodes a full
script specification for the sender to pay to, instead of just
encoding its hash. As a result these addresses would be much longer
(and potentially very long).
The minimum size of a two address involving encoded script would be on
that order, but they get bigger quite quickly if you add more options
to the script (actually 70 sounds quite small, it should be more like
100 for a minimum two pubkey script).
In addition to the unworkability of very long addresses as described
by gavin (amusingly I am unable to copy and paste the quoted example
in one go) a P2S solution has several problems which you might
consider more or less important:
(1) They are highly vulnerable to invisible substitution. E.g. I can
trivially take a P2S address, change one or two characters and get a
script which is redeemable by anyone. With P2SH you have to do
computation which is exponential in the number of unchanged digits to
get a look alike address.
(2) The sender is fully responsible for fees related to the enlarged
transactions. Even if _you're_ willing to take the txn-processing time
and fee burden of a 30 person joint trust address, random e-commerce
sites will not be and will randomly reject your addresses.
(3) They create another input vector for non-trivial data which must
be inspected and validated, potentially presenting an attack surface.
(4) They leave the complicated (long) release rules in the transaction
outputs. When a transaction is mined we can't be sure if it will ever
be redeemed. The outputs are unprunable. In a future world where
many nodes prune output space is far more important than input space
and it would make sense to require more fees for it because we're
never sure how long it would need to be stored (making it an
attractive target for someone who wants to make Bitcoin unusable by
spamming it with worthless data). P2SH reduces output sizes to the
absolute minimum without inflating the total data size.