Alan Reiner [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2013-06-05 📝 Original message:The two most basic ways ...
📅 Original date posted:2013-06-05
📝 Original message:The two most basic ways would be simply:
(1) You create your transactions having a locktime of X days and has
sequence numbers such that it can be replaced exactly once. The
replacement, can be executed within 30 days.
(2) You simply send money to 1-of-2 transactions: me-or-you. If the
person who is receiving it wants it, they have to sign for it by sending
it to one of their own single-sig addresses. Otherwise, you can return
it to yourself at some point in the future.
I don't totally understand the goal, and how/if these solutions actually
achieve such goal. But it does add a way for transactions to exist a
non-final state for some amount of time. But in both cases,
accessibility is still binary: you have complete access to it, until
you don't. Which might be seen as the point of irrevocable transfer.
-Alan
On 06/05/2013 08:19 PM, Peter Vessenes wrote:
> So, this
> http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/the-last-straw-for-bitcoin-1059608-1.html?pg=1
> article got posted today, noting that FinCEN thinks irrevocable
> payments are money laundering tools.
>
> I will hold my thoughts about the net social good of rent-seeking
> large corporations taking money from consumers over fraudulent
> reversals. Actually, I won't, I just said it.
>
> At any rate, it got me thinking, can we layer on revocability somehow
> without any protocol change, as an opt-in?
>
> My initial scheme is a trusted (hah) escrow service that issues time
> promises for signing. If it doesn't receive a cancel message, it will
> sign at the end of the time.
>
> The addresses would be listed by the escrow service, or in an open
> registry, so you could see if you were going to have a delay period
> when you saw a transaction go out.
>
> This seems sort of poor to me, it imagines that mythical thing, a
> trusted escrow service, and is vulnerable to griefing, but I thought
> I'd see if some of the brighter minds than me can come up with a
> layer-on approach here.
>
> When I think about it, I can imagine that I would put a good number of
> my coins in a one day reversible system, because I would have warning
> if someone wanted to try and spend them, and could do something about
> it. I'm not sure if it gets me anything over a standard escrow
> arrangement, though.
>
> Peter
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> CoinLab LogoPETER VESSENES
> CEO
>
> *peter at coinlab.com <mailto:peter at coinlab.com> * / 206.486.6856
> / SKYPE: vessenes
> 71 COLUMBIA ST / SUITE 300 / SEATTLE, WA 98104
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments:
> 1. A cloud service to automate IT design, transition and operations
> 2. Dashboards that offer high-level views of enterprise services
> 3. A single system of record for all IT processes
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20130605/a7e538e5/attachment.html>;
📝 Original message:The two most basic ways would be simply:
(1) You create your transactions having a locktime of X days and has
sequence numbers such that it can be replaced exactly once. The
replacement, can be executed within 30 days.
(2) You simply send money to 1-of-2 transactions: me-or-you. If the
person who is receiving it wants it, they have to sign for it by sending
it to one of their own single-sig addresses. Otherwise, you can return
it to yourself at some point in the future.
I don't totally understand the goal, and how/if these solutions actually
achieve such goal. But it does add a way for transactions to exist a
non-final state for some amount of time. But in both cases,
accessibility is still binary: you have complete access to it, until
you don't. Which might be seen as the point of irrevocable transfer.
-Alan
On 06/05/2013 08:19 PM, Peter Vessenes wrote:
> So, this
> http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/the-last-straw-for-bitcoin-1059608-1.html?pg=1
> article got posted today, noting that FinCEN thinks irrevocable
> payments are money laundering tools.
>
> I will hold my thoughts about the net social good of rent-seeking
> large corporations taking money from consumers over fraudulent
> reversals. Actually, I won't, I just said it.
>
> At any rate, it got me thinking, can we layer on revocability somehow
> without any protocol change, as an opt-in?
>
> My initial scheme is a trusted (hah) escrow service that issues time
> promises for signing. If it doesn't receive a cancel message, it will
> sign at the end of the time.
>
> The addresses would be listed by the escrow service, or in an open
> registry, so you could see if you were going to have a delay period
> when you saw a transaction go out.
>
> This seems sort of poor to me, it imagines that mythical thing, a
> trusted escrow service, and is vulnerable to griefing, but I thought
> I'd see if some of the brighter minds than me can come up with a
> layer-on approach here.
>
> When I think about it, I can imagine that I would put a good number of
> my coins in a one day reversible system, because I would have warning
> if someone wanted to try and spend them, and could do something about
> it. I'm not sure if it gets me anything over a standard escrow
> arrangement, though.
>
> Peter
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> CoinLab LogoPETER VESSENES
> CEO
>
> *peter at coinlab.com <mailto:peter at coinlab.com> * / 206.486.6856
> / SKYPE: vessenes
> 71 COLUMBIA ST / SUITE 300 / SEATTLE, WA 98104
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments:
> 1. A cloud service to automate IT design, transition and operations
> 2. Dashboards that offer high-level views of enterprise services
> 3. A single system of record for all IT processes
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20130605/a7e538e5/attachment.html>;