Matt Corallo [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2023-06-20 🗒️ Summary of this message: Electrum plans ...
📅 Original date posted:2023-06-20
🗒️ Summary of this message: Electrum plans to implement BOLT-12 support in the coming months, but it may take years for it to become the dominant payment method on Lightning. A new BOLT-11 extension would have to start from scratch, while BOLT-12 offers are reusable. The goal of the proposal is to level the field of competition between Lightning service providers by allowing reverse submarine swap payments to come from any wallet. However, it only makes sense if the user has an on-chain wallet they want to use, which is distinct from their lightning wallet.
📝 Original message:
On 6/20/23 1:45 AM, Thomas Voegtlin wrote:
- snip -
> We have not implemented BOLT-12 yet in Electrum. Would you care to
> describe whether bundled payments already would work with the current
> specification, or whether they would require changes to BOLT-12?
They will not as-specified, but because BOLT12 offers are reusable you will be able to scan a single
offer and send two payments as long as the sender implements this.
> We
> are going to implement BOLT-12 support in Electrum in the coming
> months, and I would be happy to help here.
Great to hear that!
> I believe that it will take years *after it is merged*, until BOLT-12
> actually becomes the dominant payment method on Lightning.
Absolutely true.
> OTOH, if
> this feature was adopted in BOLT-11, I think it could be deployed much
> faster.
I'm not sure why? Indeed, BOLT-12 has some time to go in terms of getting off the ground floor, as
it were, but a new BOLT-11 extension has to start from 0 - with zero implementations today and,
worse, having to convince people to actually care enough to implement it.
At least with BOLT-12 a client that is "swap-aware" you don't have to scan two QR codes or do any
complicated dance.
> The goal of my proposal is to level the field of competition between
> Lightning service providers, by allowing reverse submarine swap
> payments to come from any wallet (of course, a dedicated client will
> still be needed to verify the redeem script and the invoice, and to
> sweep the funds, as discussed above)
I admit I still kinda struggle to see the value here - the user has to have a "swap-aware" client
doing the swap setup and enforcement, but then can have any lightning wallet pay it. So it only
really makes sense if the user has an on-chain wallet they want to use which is distinct from their
lightning wallet (and their lightning wallet doesn't support splice-out, which presumably most will
in a year or so). This seems like quite a narrow set of requirements to me.
Matt
🗒️ Summary of this message: Electrum plans to implement BOLT-12 support in the coming months, but it may take years for it to become the dominant payment method on Lightning. A new BOLT-11 extension would have to start from scratch, while BOLT-12 offers are reusable. The goal of the proposal is to level the field of competition between Lightning service providers by allowing reverse submarine swap payments to come from any wallet. However, it only makes sense if the user has an on-chain wallet they want to use, which is distinct from their lightning wallet.
📝 Original message:
On 6/20/23 1:45 AM, Thomas Voegtlin wrote:
- snip -
> We have not implemented BOLT-12 yet in Electrum. Would you care to
> describe whether bundled payments already would work with the current
> specification, or whether they would require changes to BOLT-12?
They will not as-specified, but because BOLT12 offers are reusable you will be able to scan a single
offer and send two payments as long as the sender implements this.
> We
> are going to implement BOLT-12 support in Electrum in the coming
> months, and I would be happy to help here.
Great to hear that!
> I believe that it will take years *after it is merged*, until BOLT-12
> actually becomes the dominant payment method on Lightning.
Absolutely true.
> OTOH, if
> this feature was adopted in BOLT-11, I think it could be deployed much
> faster.
I'm not sure why? Indeed, BOLT-12 has some time to go in terms of getting off the ground floor, as
it were, but a new BOLT-11 extension has to start from 0 - with zero implementations today and,
worse, having to convince people to actually care enough to implement it.
At least with BOLT-12 a client that is "swap-aware" you don't have to scan two QR codes or do any
complicated dance.
> The goal of my proposal is to level the field of competition between
> Lightning service providers, by allowing reverse submarine swap
> payments to come from any wallet (of course, a dedicated client will
> still be needed to verify the redeem script and the invoice, and to
> sweep the funds, as discussed above)
I admit I still kinda struggle to see the value here - the user has to have a "swap-aware" client
doing the swap setup and enforcement, but then can have any lightning wallet pay it. So it only
really makes sense if the user has an on-chain wallet they want to use which is distinct from their
lightning wallet (and their lightning wallet doesn't support splice-out, which presumably most will
in a year or so). This seems like quite a narrow set of requirements to me.
Matt