Eric Voskuil [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2021-03-05 📝 Original message:Hi Andrew, Do you mean ...
📅 Original date posted:2021-03-05
📝 Original message:Hi Andrew,
Do you mean that you can reduce the cost of executing the cryptography at a comparable level of security? If so this will only have the effect of increasing the amount of it that is required to consume the same cost.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Efficiency-Paradox
You mentioned a staking hybrid in your original post.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Hybrid-Mining-Fallacy
This would be a change to dynamics - the economic forces at work. Staking is not censorship resistant
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-Fallacy
and is therefore what I refer to as cryptodynamically insecure.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Cryptodynamic-Principles
As such it wouldn’t likely be considered as a contribution to Bitcoin. It might of course be useful in some other context.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Shitcoin-Definition
But BIPs are proposals aimed at Bitcoin improvement.
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0001.mediawiki#What_is_a_BIP
Non-staking attempts to improve energy efficiency are either proof of work in disguise, such as proof of memory:
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Proof-of-Memory-Fallacy
or attempts to repurpose “wasteful” computing, such as by finding prime numbers, which does not imply a reduction in dedicated energy consumption.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Dedicated-Cost-Principle
Finally, waste and renewable energy approaches at “carbon” (vs energy) reduction must still consume the same in cost as the reward. In other words, the apparent benefit represents a temporary market shift, with advantage to first movers. The market will still consume what it consumes. If the hashing energy was free all reward consumption would shift to operations.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Byproduct-Mining-Fallacy
The motivation behind these attempts is naively understandable, but based on a false premise.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Energy-Waste-Fallacy
The one thing that reduces Bitcoin energy consumption is an increase in energy cost relative to block reward.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Energy-Exhaustion-Fallacy
e
> On Mar 5, 2021, at 07:30, Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub and just attach it as my proposal?
>
> Best regards, Andrew
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom <c1.devrandom at niftybox.net> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan and Andrew,
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/
>>> "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"
>>> on | 04 Aug 2015
>>
>> Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining market will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward. It does not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.
>>
>> Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and that we should move to other resources. I would argue that the negative externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the point is likely moot.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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📝 Original message:Hi Andrew,
Do you mean that you can reduce the cost of executing the cryptography at a comparable level of security? If so this will only have the effect of increasing the amount of it that is required to consume the same cost.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Efficiency-Paradox
You mentioned a staking hybrid in your original post.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Hybrid-Mining-Fallacy
This would be a change to dynamics - the economic forces at work. Staking is not censorship resistant
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-Fallacy
and is therefore what I refer to as cryptodynamically insecure.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Cryptodynamic-Principles
As such it wouldn’t likely be considered as a contribution to Bitcoin. It might of course be useful in some other context.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Shitcoin-Definition
But BIPs are proposals aimed at Bitcoin improvement.
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0001.mediawiki#What_is_a_BIP
Non-staking attempts to improve energy efficiency are either proof of work in disguise, such as proof of memory:
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Proof-of-Memory-Fallacy
or attempts to repurpose “wasteful” computing, such as by finding prime numbers, which does not imply a reduction in dedicated energy consumption.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Dedicated-Cost-Principle
Finally, waste and renewable energy approaches at “carbon” (vs energy) reduction must still consume the same in cost as the reward. In other words, the apparent benefit represents a temporary market shift, with advantage to first movers. The market will still consume what it consumes. If the hashing energy was free all reward consumption would shift to operations.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Byproduct-Mining-Fallacy
The motivation behind these attempts is naively understandable, but based on a false premise.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Energy-Waste-Fallacy
The one thing that reduces Bitcoin energy consumption is an increase in energy cost relative to block reward.
https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Energy-Exhaustion-Fallacy
e
> On Mar 5, 2021, at 07:30, Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub and just attach it as my proposal?
>
> Best regards, Andrew
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom <c1.devrandom at niftybox.net> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan and Andrew,
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/
>>> "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"
>>> on | 04 Aug 2015
>>
>> Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining market will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward. It does not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.
>>
>> Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and that we should move to other resources. I would argue that the negative externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the point is likely moot.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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