Peter Todd [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: š Original date posted:2018-01-24 š Original message:On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at ...
š
Original date posted:2018-01-24
š Original message:On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 09:31:00PM +0000, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > Most transactions don't have change?! Under what circumstance? For most
> > use-cases the reverse is true: almost all all transactions have change, because
> > it's rare for the inputs to exactly math the requested payment.
>
> It's quite easy to get no change with a not-dumb algorithm selecting
> coins if you have a decent number of outputs well under the value
> you're paying.
>
> The number of ways n choose m combines grows exponentially, and you
> only need to get close enough over the right value so that you're
> paying excess fees equal or less than the cost of the change (which
> should include the current cost output itself as well as estimated
> cost of the future signature to spend it).
>
> Achow101 and Murch have code to implement an efficient algorithm for
> finding these solutions for Bitcoin core which will hopefully get in
> soon.
Oh, Bitcoin Core doesn't already do that? I though that was what the (rather
complex) knapsack code was supposed to be doing.
In any case, you're assuming that there actually are a large number of outputs.
That's not likely to be the case in most "consumer-like" use-cases where the
number of deposits into the wallet is relatively low compared to the number of
withdrawls as coins are spent in smaller amounts; that's the pattern most of my
Bitcoin usage follows, particularly as I keep the amount of funds in my hot
wallets low.
Having said that, Rhavar's usage patterns could easily be different; I'd be
completely wrong in the case of a payment service for instance where a large
number of deposits are aggregated into a smaller number of payments; that
use-case happens to be a particularly interesting one for using tx replacement
to add outputs, so my criticism was definitely premature.
--
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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š Original message:On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 09:31:00PM +0000, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > Most transactions don't have change?! Under what circumstance? For most
> > use-cases the reverse is true: almost all all transactions have change, because
> > it's rare for the inputs to exactly math the requested payment.
>
> It's quite easy to get no change with a not-dumb algorithm selecting
> coins if you have a decent number of outputs well under the value
> you're paying.
>
> The number of ways n choose m combines grows exponentially, and you
> only need to get close enough over the right value so that you're
> paying excess fees equal or less than the cost of the change (which
> should include the current cost output itself as well as estimated
> cost of the future signature to spend it).
>
> Achow101 and Murch have code to implement an efficient algorithm for
> finding these solutions for Bitcoin core which will hopefully get in
> soon.
Oh, Bitcoin Core doesn't already do that? I though that was what the (rather
complex) knapsack code was supposed to be doing.
In any case, you're assuming that there actually are a large number of outputs.
That's not likely to be the case in most "consumer-like" use-cases where the
number of deposits into the wallet is relatively low compared to the number of
withdrawls as coins are spent in smaller amounts; that's the pattern most of my
Bitcoin usage follows, particularly as I keep the amount of funds in my hot
wallets low.
Having said that, Rhavar's usage patterns could easily be different; I'd be
completely wrong in the case of a payment service for instance where a large
number of deposits are aggregated into a smaller number of payments; that
use-case happens to be a particularly interesting one for using tx replacement
to add outputs, so my criticism was definitely premature.
--
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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