Gary Rowe [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2012-01-31 📝 Original message:Regarding the decimal vs ...
📅 Original date posted:2012-01-31
📝 Original message:Regarding the decimal vs satoshi notation I see a few problems with satoshi:
* readability - humans reading the URI would expect it to accurately
reflect what is being displayed (subject to internationalisation issues)
For example, amount=1.234 is more human readable than amount=123400000 (ish)
* backwards compatibility - existing software already uses the decimal
notation
* forwards compatibility - Bitcoin needs to move beyond the satoshi to 20
dps for some reason, this remains OK within the existing schema, but forces
decimals into the satoshi scheme
* simplicity - dual decimal/satoshi variants should be discouraged under
the "single representation" approach
It's relatively straightforward to convert a string encoded decimal into an
internal integer for currency calculations just by applying a multiplying
factor. One never uses doubles or floats for money.
On 31 January 2012 14:33, slush <slush at centrum.cz> wrote:
> Hi Amir,
>
> > All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers alone. I see no
> reason for breaking with tradition.
>
> excuse me if it was already discussed, but maybe using satoshis instead of
> decimal bitcoin would be better choice? We all know about pains with proper
> handling decimal numbers across of all implementations - and it's not only
> about json-rpc.
>
> Otherwise I agree, BIP 21 is better than BIP 20 because it's easier to
> implement all points of the standard.
>
> Best,
> slush
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Amir Taaki <zgenjix at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> BIP 20 really has no support among implementations such as Bitcoin-Qt,
>> Electrum, MultiBit or Bitcoin-JS. As the most active and visible user
>> facing GUI projects (all with some form of URI Scheme), their opinion
>> carries the most weight. To a lesser degree Bitcoin-Qt has the large
>> majority of users too (although that's a line of reasoning I'd discourage).
>>
>> Normally we should probably Reject BIP 21 and re-submit a new standard
>> (for history's sake), but as a) BIP 21 is largely a copy paste of BIP 20
>> sans some sections b) it is still a draft, probably the best thing here is
>> if you all agree on something to run it by BlueMatt and then we'll make it
>> the new BIP 21.
>>
>> I can see a consensus forming on most parts. Just the send private key is
>> contentious, and there's the topic of adding a time to expire field for
>> merchants (this is a very good idea IMO).
>>
>> Also BIP 20 is problematic because it is incompatible with about every
>> standard on the web. All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers
>> alone. I see no reason for breaking with tradition. Note that everytime I
>> have to write Color or Vectorize (as a British speaker) in my code, I die a
>> little inside. But it's convention and American English = International
>> English. Also it would be cool if all code used a *real* international
>> language (like Esperanto) but the world ain't perfect! We live in a
>> decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using God-worshipping world!
>>
>> (no offense to decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using
>> God-worshipping world- I do half those things too :)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
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📝 Original message:Regarding the decimal vs satoshi notation I see a few problems with satoshi:
* readability - humans reading the URI would expect it to accurately
reflect what is being displayed (subject to internationalisation issues)
For example, amount=1.234 is more human readable than amount=123400000 (ish)
* backwards compatibility - existing software already uses the decimal
notation
* forwards compatibility - Bitcoin needs to move beyond the satoshi to 20
dps for some reason, this remains OK within the existing schema, but forces
decimals into the satoshi scheme
* simplicity - dual decimal/satoshi variants should be discouraged under
the "single representation" approach
It's relatively straightforward to convert a string encoded decimal into an
internal integer for currency calculations just by applying a multiplying
factor. One never uses doubles or floats for money.
On 31 January 2012 14:33, slush <slush at centrum.cz> wrote:
> Hi Amir,
>
> > All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers alone. I see no
> reason for breaking with tradition.
>
> excuse me if it was already discussed, but maybe using satoshis instead of
> decimal bitcoin would be better choice? We all know about pains with proper
> handling decimal numbers across of all implementations - and it's not only
> about json-rpc.
>
> Otherwise I agree, BIP 21 is better than BIP 20 because it's easier to
> implement all points of the standard.
>
> Best,
> slush
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Amir Taaki <zgenjix at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> BIP 20 really has no support among implementations such as Bitcoin-Qt,
>> Electrum, MultiBit or Bitcoin-JS. As the most active and visible user
>> facing GUI projects (all with some form of URI Scheme), their opinion
>> carries the most weight. To a lesser degree Bitcoin-Qt has the large
>> majority of users too (although that's a line of reasoning I'd discourage).
>>
>> Normally we should probably Reject BIP 21 and re-submit a new standard
>> (for history's sake), but as a) BIP 21 is largely a copy paste of BIP 20
>> sans some sections b) it is still a draft, probably the best thing here is
>> if you all agree on something to run it by BlueMatt and then we'll make it
>> the new BIP 21.
>>
>> I can see a consensus forming on most parts. Just the send private key is
>> contentious, and there's the topic of adding a time to expire field for
>> merchants (this is a very good idea IMO).
>>
>> Also BIP 20 is problematic because it is incompatible with about every
>> standard on the web. All the HTML, URI and everything uses decimal numbers
>> alone. I see no reason for breaking with tradition. Note that everytime I
>> have to write Color or Vectorize (as a British speaker) in my code, I die a
>> little inside. But it's convention and American English = International
>> English. Also it would be cool if all code used a *real* international
>> language (like Esperanto) but the world ain't perfect! We live in a
>> decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using God-worshipping world!
>>
>> (no offense to decimal-counting English-speaking Windows-using
>> God-worshipping world- I do half those things too :)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
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