techfeudalist on Nostr: Wow, did you really just ask me to dox myself? I guess you must be new here. đYou ...
Wow, did you really just ask me to dox myself? I guess you must be new here. đYou know, you could just ask me technical questions.
Regarding whether Liquid is an L2⊠Itâs amusing that you would argue the point pedantically given that there is no established definition.
If you want, you can listen to Adam Back and Sampson Mow describe liquid as a layer 2 here, right around the 4:00 mark. They should know, right?
https://www.whatbitcoindid.com/podcast/liquid-bitcoin-with-adam-back-samson-mow
Anyway, back to the main topic. Iâll walk you through, step by step, why CAT / CTV create centralizing incentives for minersâŠ
First, did you see Peter Toddâs report?
In his report, Peter admits that both CAT and CTV add risks. He says:
âUnlike OP_CAT, CTV doesnât appear to raise much risk of unintended consequences beyond encouraging out-of-band fee payments in certain cases. This isnât ideal.â
The risk that Peter identified for CTV is âencouraging out of band fee paymentsâ.
(If youâd like, just ask and Iâll explain WHY CTV encourages out of band fee payments.)
In case youâre unfamiliar, this is an example of private out of band payments to miners.
Eg, MARAâs Slipstream API:
https://x.com/JStefanop1/status/1760764664651133162
Next, why are out of band payments risky?
Hereâs Matt Corallo explaining why these can motivate miner centralization:
https://x.com/TheBlueMatt/status/1780558009841643833
Matt argues that these payments to miners are a risk because they encourage centralization:
âMore recently, out of band payments to miners have become popular again, allowing individuals to pay large pools for the inclusion of their transaction(s) using payments outside of the normal bitcoin transaction fee. This can create substantial MEVil [centralization MEV risk] [âŠ]â
So to recap, Peter admits that CAT / CTV can encourage out of band payments to miners. Matt explains that these payments can encourage miner centralization.
You said I was âgrossly misinformedâ, and âcompletely wrongâ. Iâve provided you direct quotes from notable devs.
Ok, now your turn. Explain how I got it wrong and why you believe CTV or CAT âwill help to decentralize mining poolsâ.
Iâm hoping youâll be able to respond with a reasonable rebuttal đ so I might learn if I missed something. But I suspect youâre just mindlessly parroting what you heard. I hope you prove me wrong.
If you donât respond, weâll both know who didnât do any research. đ«Ą
Regarding whether Liquid is an L2⊠Itâs amusing that you would argue the point pedantically given that there is no established definition.
If you want, you can listen to Adam Back and Sampson Mow describe liquid as a layer 2 here, right around the 4:00 mark. They should know, right?
https://www.whatbitcoindid.com/podcast/liquid-bitcoin-with-adam-back-samson-mow
Anyway, back to the main topic. Iâll walk you through, step by step, why CAT / CTV create centralizing incentives for minersâŠ
First, did you see Peter Toddâs report?
quoting note1numâŠuxr9https://petertodd.org/2024/covenant-dependent-layer-2-review
âSoft-Fork/Covenant Dependent Layer 2 Reviewâ
I've finally published my big article sponsored by Fulgur Ventures, analyzing all the main covenant proposals, and the L2 proposals that would use them.
tl;dr: Ark is pretty cool, and CTV is a good way to get it.
In his report, Peter admits that both CAT and CTV add risks. He says:
âUnlike OP_CAT, CTV doesnât appear to raise much risk of unintended consequences beyond encouraging out-of-band fee payments in certain cases. This isnât ideal.â
The risk that Peter identified for CTV is âencouraging out of band fee paymentsâ.
(If youâd like, just ask and Iâll explain WHY CTV encourages out of band fee payments.)
In case youâre unfamiliar, this is an example of private out of band payments to miners.
Eg, MARAâs Slipstream API:
https://x.com/JStefanop1/status/1760764664651133162
Next, why are out of band payments risky?
Hereâs Matt Corallo explaining why these can motivate miner centralization:
https://x.com/TheBlueMatt/status/1780558009841643833
Matt argues that these payments to miners are a risk because they encourage centralization:
âMore recently, out of band payments to miners have become popular again, allowing individuals to pay large pools for the inclusion of their transaction(s) using payments outside of the normal bitcoin transaction fee. This can create substantial MEVil [centralization MEV risk] [âŠ]â
So to recap, Peter admits that CAT / CTV can encourage out of band payments to miners. Matt explains that these payments can encourage miner centralization.
You said I was âgrossly misinformedâ, and âcompletely wrongâ. Iâve provided you direct quotes from notable devs.
Ok, now your turn. Explain how I got it wrong and why you believe CTV or CAT âwill help to decentralize mining poolsâ.
Iâm hoping youâll be able to respond with a reasonable rebuttal đ so I might learn if I missed something. But I suspect youâre just mindlessly parroting what you heard. I hope you prove me wrong.
If you donât respond, weâll both know who didnât do any research. đ«Ą