Andreas Schildbach [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2013-09-25 📝 Original message:On 09/25/2013 01:15 PM, ...
📅 Original date posted:2013-09-25
📝 Original message:On 09/25/2013 01:15 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> It won't fit.
Why do you think that? Of course, I would skip the certificate, as its
unnecessary if you see your partner in person.
> But I don't see the logic. A URI contains instructions for
> making a payment. If that instruction is "pay to this address" or
> "download this file and do what you find there", it's no different
> unless there's potential for a MITM attack. If the request URL is HTTPS
> or a secured Bluetooth connection then there's no such possibility.
HTTPS trust is utterly broken unless you fix it by adding the
certificate or a fingerprint to the QR code. Bluetooth is not present in
every case, e.g. QR codes scanned from the web. (Also, we currently
don't have a concept of allowing both. The receiver forces you to either
use BT or HTTP.)
So yes, MITM is what I'm worrying about. When I'm scanning a QR code
from a phone, you don't have that problem (unless sophisticated optical
attacks emerge). Also, the HTTP request can fail and/or be slow, making
the whole payment process more difficult than necessary.
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Andreas Schildbach
> <andreas at schildbach.de <mailto:andreas at schildbach.de>> wrote:
>
> While it's good to save space, I'm at the moment not convinced that
> taking a de-route via an URL is a good idea to begin with.
>
> The main problem is trust. If you scan a QR code from a foreign phone,
> you trust that that phone is owned by the one you want to send money to.
> By adding the HTTP request that trust is voided.
>
> As soon as there is a BIP70 implementation, I will begin playing with
> putting the payment request directly into the QR code.
>
>
> On 09/25/2013 11:27 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> > We could also say that if protocol part (https://) is missing, it's
> > implied automatically. So just:
> >
> > bitcoin:1abc........?r=bob.com/r/aZgR <http://bob.com/r/aZgR>;
> <http://bob.com/r/aZgR>;
> >
> > I think that's about as small as possible without re-using the
> pubkey as
> > a token in the url.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Gavin Andresen
> <gavinandresen at gmail.com <mailto:gavinandresen at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:gavinandresen at gmail.com <mailto:gavinandresen at gmail.com>>>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Mike Hearn <mike at plan99.net
> <mailto:mike at plan99.net>
> > <mailto:mike at plan99.net <mailto:mike at plan99.net>>> wrote:
> >
> > BTW, on the "make qrcodes more scannable" front -- is it too
> > late to change BIP 72 so the new param is just "r" instead of
> > "request"? Every byte helps when it comes to qrcodes ...
> >
> >
> > Not too late, assuming there are no objections. Smaller QR
> codes is
> > a very good reason to change it.
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Gavin Andresen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > October Webinars: Code for Performance
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the
> most from
> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
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> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> October Webinars: Code for Performance
> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from
> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
📝 Original message:On 09/25/2013 01:15 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> It won't fit.
Why do you think that? Of course, I would skip the certificate, as its
unnecessary if you see your partner in person.
> But I don't see the logic. A URI contains instructions for
> making a payment. If that instruction is "pay to this address" or
> "download this file and do what you find there", it's no different
> unless there's potential for a MITM attack. If the request URL is HTTPS
> or a secured Bluetooth connection then there's no such possibility.
HTTPS trust is utterly broken unless you fix it by adding the
certificate or a fingerprint to the QR code. Bluetooth is not present in
every case, e.g. QR codes scanned from the web. (Also, we currently
don't have a concept of allowing both. The receiver forces you to either
use BT or HTTP.)
So yes, MITM is what I'm worrying about. When I'm scanning a QR code
from a phone, you don't have that problem (unless sophisticated optical
attacks emerge). Also, the HTTP request can fail and/or be slow, making
the whole payment process more difficult than necessary.
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Andreas Schildbach
> <andreas at schildbach.de <mailto:andreas at schildbach.de>> wrote:
>
> While it's good to save space, I'm at the moment not convinced that
> taking a de-route via an URL is a good idea to begin with.
>
> The main problem is trust. If you scan a QR code from a foreign phone,
> you trust that that phone is owned by the one you want to send money to.
> By adding the HTTP request that trust is voided.
>
> As soon as there is a BIP70 implementation, I will begin playing with
> putting the payment request directly into the QR code.
>
>
> On 09/25/2013 11:27 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> > We could also say that if protocol part (https://) is missing, it's
> > implied automatically. So just:
> >
> > bitcoin:1abc........?r=bob.com/r/aZgR <http://bob.com/r/aZgR>;
> <http://bob.com/r/aZgR>;
> >
> > I think that's about as small as possible without re-using the
> pubkey as
> > a token in the url.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Gavin Andresen
> <gavinandresen at gmail.com <mailto:gavinandresen at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:gavinandresen at gmail.com <mailto:gavinandresen at gmail.com>>>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Mike Hearn <mike at plan99.net
> <mailto:mike at plan99.net>
> > <mailto:mike at plan99.net <mailto:mike at plan99.net>>> wrote:
> >
> > BTW, on the "make qrcodes more scannable" front -- is it too
> > late to change BIP 72 so the new param is just "r" instead of
> > "request"? Every byte helps when it comes to qrcodes ...
> >
> >
> > Not too late, assuming there are no objections. Smaller QR
> codes is
> > a very good reason to change it.
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Gavin Andresen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > October Webinars: Code for Performance
> > Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
> > Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get
> the most from
> > the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
> register >
> >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> October Webinars: Code for Performance
> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the
> most from
> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
> register >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> October Webinars: Code for Performance
> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from
> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>