slush [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2014-01-20 📝 Original message:On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at ...
📅 Original date posted:2014-01-20
📝 Original message:On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:06 AM, Christophe Biocca <
christophe.biocca at gmail.com> wrote:
> I remember the wordlist choice getting bikeshedded to death a month ago.
>
> I would just include the wordlist as part of the standard (as a
> recommendation) so that fully compliant implementations can correct a
> user's typos regardless of the original generator.
>
>
That's exactly our attitude. We realized that have a community-wide
agreement on the wordlist itself is simply imposible, so to reach at least
some consensus we split the proposal to two parts - one what is essential
to call itself a "bip39 compatible", i.e. converting the mnemonic to bip32
node and second which is optional, including our proposed wordlist, which
has some advanced features like checksums etc. Now it is up to client
developers to decide if they really insist on their superior wordlist or if
they'll implement checksums following the full specification.
> Those who don't like it will have to deal with the compatibility
> concerns themselves, or get an alternate wordlist approved as a BIP.
Odds are no one will go that route.
>
>
At least Trezor and bitcoinj (Multibit) seems to be going in this way,
which is 100% of clients which expressed interest in bip39 :-).
slush
> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Peter Todd <pete at petertodd.org> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 04:05:14PM -0600, Brooks Boyd wrote:
> >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 11:42 AM, slush <slush at centrum.cz> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > during recent months we've reconsidered all comments which we received
> >> > from the community about our BIP39 proposal and we tried to meet all
> >> > requirements for such standard. Specifically the proposal now doesn't
> >> > require any specific wordlist, so every client can use its very own
> list of
> >> > preferred words. Generated mnemonic can be then applied to any other
> >> > BIP39-compatible client. Please follow current draft at
> >> > https://github.com/trezor/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki.
> >>
> >> So, because the [mnemonic]->[bip32 root] is just hashing, you've
> >> effectively made your "mnemonic sentence" into a brainwallet? Since
> every
> >> mnemonic sentence can now lead to a bip32 root, and only the client that
> >> created the mnemonic can verify the mnemonic passes its checksum
> (assuming
> >> all clients use different wordlists, the only client that can help you
> if
> >> you fat-finger the sentence is the client that created it)?
> >
> > That issue is more than enough to get a NACK from me on making the
> > current BIP39 draft a standard - I can easily see that leading to users
> > losing a lot of money.
> >
> > Have any wallets implemented BIP39 this way already in released code?
> >
> > --
> > 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> > 00000000000000009c3092c0b245722363df8b29cfbb86368f4f7303e655983a
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
>
>
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📝 Original message:On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:06 AM, Christophe Biocca <
christophe.biocca at gmail.com> wrote:
> I remember the wordlist choice getting bikeshedded to death a month ago.
>
> I would just include the wordlist as part of the standard (as a
> recommendation) so that fully compliant implementations can correct a
> user's typos regardless of the original generator.
>
>
That's exactly our attitude. We realized that have a community-wide
agreement on the wordlist itself is simply imposible, so to reach at least
some consensus we split the proposal to two parts - one what is essential
to call itself a "bip39 compatible", i.e. converting the mnemonic to bip32
node and second which is optional, including our proposed wordlist, which
has some advanced features like checksums etc. Now it is up to client
developers to decide if they really insist on their superior wordlist or if
they'll implement checksums following the full specification.
> Those who don't like it will have to deal with the compatibility
> concerns themselves, or get an alternate wordlist approved as a BIP.
Odds are no one will go that route.
>
>
At least Trezor and bitcoinj (Multibit) seems to be going in this way,
which is 100% of clients which expressed interest in bip39 :-).
slush
> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Peter Todd <pete at petertodd.org> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 04:05:14PM -0600, Brooks Boyd wrote:
> >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 11:42 AM, slush <slush at centrum.cz> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > during recent months we've reconsidered all comments which we received
> >> > from the community about our BIP39 proposal and we tried to meet all
> >> > requirements for such standard. Specifically the proposal now doesn't
> >> > require any specific wordlist, so every client can use its very own
> list of
> >> > preferred words. Generated mnemonic can be then applied to any other
> >> > BIP39-compatible client. Please follow current draft at
> >> > https://github.com/trezor/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki.
> >>
> >> So, because the [mnemonic]->[bip32 root] is just hashing, you've
> >> effectively made your "mnemonic sentence" into a brainwallet? Since
> every
> >> mnemonic sentence can now lead to a bip32 root, and only the client that
> >> created the mnemonic can verify the mnemonic passes its checksum
> (assuming
> >> all clients use different wordlists, the only client that can help you
> if
> >> you fat-finger the sentence is the client that created it)?
> >
> > That issue is more than enough to get a NACK from me on making the
> > current BIP39 draft a standard - I can easily see that leading to users
> > losing a lot of money.
> >
> > Have any wallets implemented BIP39 this way already in released code?
> >
> > --
> > 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> > 00000000000000009c3092c0b245722363df8b29cfbb86368f4f7303e655983a
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
> > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
> > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
> > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
> >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
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