Moss on Nostr: Taxes and slaves ...
Taxes and slaves
quoting note1dsg…fmleA note on taxation.
Historically, how much were slaves allowed to keep of the fruits of their labour?
News came yesterday of an analysis of the average tax burden in Norway, including tax on income, wealth, VAT and more.
Excluding a few other taxes that we must pay, the answer was 67%.
I figure, if you include all of the special taxes and the 19 months of military conscription (which effectively is almost 100% tax), the result should be closer to 80%.
I'll link to it in a comment (it's in Norwegian).
To get a feeling of how that compares to traditional slavery I asked Grok a question and the answer was illuminating:
My question:
Approximately how big a share of the fruits of their labour have masters let slaves keep throughout history. Give 10 examples, beginning with ancient egypt and ending with something from the united states in the 19th century
Grok's answer
"Determining the exact share of the fruits of labor that slaves retained throughout history is challenging due to the variability in slave systems, the nature of records, and the differences in what was considered "fruits of labor" across different cultures and eras. However, based on historical practices and the information available up to 2024, here are approximate insights into how much slaves might have retained from their labor, focusing on examples from Ancient Egypt through to the 19th century United States:
Ancient Egypt: While slaves existed in Ancient Egypt, the concept of "wages" or retained labor fruits was not as straightforward as in later societies. Slaves could be given land, food, or other forms of compensation, but this was more about sustenance than profit-sharing. Some slaves, especially those with skills or in high demand, might have been allowed to keep a small portion of their earnings or goods, but this was likely minimal, perhaps around 5-10% in modern terms if we were to quantify it.
Classical Greece (Athens): Skilled slaves, like those in the Laurion silver mines or domestic slaves, could earn money through their skills. Some were allowed to keep a portion of their earnings, which might have been around 10-20% of their labor's value, especially if they were involved in commerce or skilled crafts.
Roman Empire: Roman slaves could buy their freedom or were sometimes granted freedom with a portion of their earnings retained. This might equate to around 15-25% of their labor's value, especially for those in urban settings or skilled trades.
Medieval Europe: Serfs, while not slaves in the classical sense, were bound to the land. They might retain around 30-40% of their produce or labor value, but this was more about survival than profit.
Islamic Golden Age (Abbasid Caliphate): Slaves, particularly those with skills or administrative roles, could sometimes retain a portion of their earnings, possibly around 20-30%, especially if they were involved in trade or crafts.
Medieval Islamic World (Mamluks in Egypt): Mamluk slaves, who were military slaves, were not typical in that they could rise to significant power. While not directly applicable to economic fruits, their eventual control over resources might be seen as retaining a significant share, though not in the initial stages of their service.
Renaissance Italy (Venice): Slaves in Venice, often domestic or involved in maritime activities, might retain very little, perhaps 5-10% of their labor's value, as their primary function was service rather than production for profit.
Colonial Latin America: In places like Brazil or the Caribbean, slaves might have been allowed to cultivate their plots or engage in petty trade. This could mean retaining around 10-20% of their labor's value, though this was often more about survival than wealth accumulation.
British Caribbean: Slaves in sugar plantations had harsh conditions with little to no share in the fruits of their labor. However, some could engage in small-scale farming or trade on Sundays, potentially retaining around 5-10% of their labor's value.
19th Century United States: In the U.S., slaves might have been allowed to keep small gardens or engage in minor trade, but their share of the actual labor fruits was minimal, often less than 5%. However, some slaves, especially in urban areas or those with skills like blacksmithing, could earn money on the side, which might be considered as retaining up to 10-15% of their labor's value if we include such earnings.
These percentages are highly speculative and based on general historical practices rather than precise data. The concept of "retaining fruits of labor" varies widely by the type of slavery, the economic system of the time, and the specific roles slaves performed. Moreover, these figures do not account for the inherent exploitation and the fact that slaves were not legally entitled to their labor's value in most systems."
End note from me:
It's not much that separates an average Norwegian tax payer and a slave in terms of how much we are allowed to keep.
Arguing about the difference is IMO largely arguing about semantics.
You may counter that it's more precise to call us serfs.
Whatever floats your boat, I say.
But it still begs the question?
When do the riots start?