Gavin Andresen [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: š Original date posted:2015-06-18 š Original message:On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at ...
š
Original date posted:2015-06-18
š Original message:On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Alex Morcos <morcos at gmail.com> wrote:
> Let me take a pass at explaining how I see this.
>
> 1) Code changes to Bitcoin Core that don't change consensus: Wladimir is
> the decider but he works under a process that is well understood by
> developers on the project in which he takes under reasonable consideration
> other technical opinions and prefers to have clear agreement among them.
>
Yes.
2) Changes to the consensus rules: As others have said, this isn't anyone's
> decision for anyone else.
>
Yes.
> It's up to each individual user as to what code they run and what rules
> they enforce. So then why is everyone so up in arms about what Mike and
> Gavin are proposing if everyone is free to decide for themselves? I
> believe that each individual user should adhere to the principle that there
> should be no changes to the consensus rules unless there is near complete
> agreement among the entire community, users, developers, businesses miners
> etc. It is not necessary to define complete agreement exactly because every
> individual person decides for themselves. I believe that this is what
> gives Bitcoin, or really any money, its value and what makes it work, that
> we all agree on exactly what it is. So I believe that it is misleading and
> bad for Bitcoin to tell users and business that you can just choose without
> concern for everyone else which code you'll run and we'll see which one
> wins out. No. You should run the old consensus rules (on any codebase you
> want) until you believe that pretty much everyone has consented to a change
> in the rules. It is your choice, but I think a lot of people that have
> spent time thinking about the philosophy of consensus systems believe that
> when the users of the system have this principle in mind, it's what will
> make the system work best.
>
I don't think I agree with "pretty much everybody", because status-quo bias
is a very powerful thing. Any change that disrupts the way they've been
doing things will generate significant resistance -- there will be 10 or
20% of any population that will take a position of "too busy to think about
this, everything seems to be working great, I don't like change, NO to any
change."
For example, I think some of the resistance for bigger blocks is coming
from contributors who are worried they, personally, won't be able to keep
up with a bigger blockchain. They might not be able to run full nodes from
their home network connections (or might not be able to run a full node AND
stream Game of Thrones), on their old raspberry pi machines.
The criteria for me is "clear super-majority of the people and businesses
who are using Bitcoin the most," and I think that criteria is met.
> 3) Code changes to Core that do change consensus: I think that Wladimir,
> all the other committers besides Gavin, and almost all of the other
> developers on Core would defer to #2 above and wait for its outcome to be
> clear before considering such a code change.
>
Yes, that's the way it has mostly been working. But even before stepping
down as Lead I was starting to wonder if there are ANY successful open
source projects that didn't have either a Benevolent Dictator or some clear
voting process to resolve disputes that cannot be settled with "rough
consensus."
--
--
Gavin Andresen
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š Original message:On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Alex Morcos <morcos at gmail.com> wrote:
> Let me take a pass at explaining how I see this.
>
> 1) Code changes to Bitcoin Core that don't change consensus: Wladimir is
> the decider but he works under a process that is well understood by
> developers on the project in which he takes under reasonable consideration
> other technical opinions and prefers to have clear agreement among them.
>
Yes.
2) Changes to the consensus rules: As others have said, this isn't anyone's
> decision for anyone else.
>
Yes.
> It's up to each individual user as to what code they run and what rules
> they enforce. So then why is everyone so up in arms about what Mike and
> Gavin are proposing if everyone is free to decide for themselves? I
> believe that each individual user should adhere to the principle that there
> should be no changes to the consensus rules unless there is near complete
> agreement among the entire community, users, developers, businesses miners
> etc. It is not necessary to define complete agreement exactly because every
> individual person decides for themselves. I believe that this is what
> gives Bitcoin, or really any money, its value and what makes it work, that
> we all agree on exactly what it is. So I believe that it is misleading and
> bad for Bitcoin to tell users and business that you can just choose without
> concern for everyone else which code you'll run and we'll see which one
> wins out. No. You should run the old consensus rules (on any codebase you
> want) until you believe that pretty much everyone has consented to a change
> in the rules. It is your choice, but I think a lot of people that have
> spent time thinking about the philosophy of consensus systems believe that
> when the users of the system have this principle in mind, it's what will
> make the system work best.
>
I don't think I agree with "pretty much everybody", because status-quo bias
is a very powerful thing. Any change that disrupts the way they've been
doing things will generate significant resistance -- there will be 10 or
20% of any population that will take a position of "too busy to think about
this, everything seems to be working great, I don't like change, NO to any
change."
For example, I think some of the resistance for bigger blocks is coming
from contributors who are worried they, personally, won't be able to keep
up with a bigger blockchain. They might not be able to run full nodes from
their home network connections (or might not be able to run a full node AND
stream Game of Thrones), on their old raspberry pi machines.
The criteria for me is "clear super-majority of the people and businesses
who are using Bitcoin the most," and I think that criteria is met.
> 3) Code changes to Core that do change consensus: I think that Wladimir,
> all the other committers besides Gavin, and almost all of the other
> developers on Core would defer to #2 above and wait for its outcome to be
> clear before considering such a code change.
>
Yes, that's the way it has mostly been working. But even before stepping
down as Lead I was starting to wonder if there are ANY successful open
source projects that didn't have either a Benevolent Dictator or some clear
voting process to resolve disputes that cannot be settled with "rough
consensus."
--
--
Gavin Andresen
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