odinn [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2015-09-29 📝 Original message:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED ...
📅 Original date posted:2015-09-29
📝 Original message:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Hello, (see my remarks below)
jl2012 via bitcoin-dev:
> Jonathan Toomim (Toomim Bros) via bitcoin-dev 於 2015-09-29 09:30 寫
> 到:
>> SPV clients will appear to behave normally, and will continue to
>> show new transactions and get confirmations in a timely fashion.
>> However, they will be systematically susceptible to attack from
>> double-spends that attempt to spend funds in a way that the
>> upgraded nodes will reject. These transactions will appear to
>> get 1 confirmation, then regress to zero conf, every single time.
>> These attacks can be performed for as long as someone mines with
>> the old version.
>
> 1. Who told you to accept 1-confirmation tx? Satoshi recommended 6
> confirmations in the whitepaper. Take your own risk if you do not
> follow his advice.
>
> 2. This is true only if your SPV client naively follows the
> longest chain without even looking at the block version. This might
> be good enough for the 1st generation SPV client, but future
> generations should at least have basic fraud detecting mechanism.
>
>
Regarding "basic fraud detecting mechanism" of which you speak, being
as I personally enjoy SPV for the time being (Electrum), and I know
that people will continue to keep using SPV wallets because they are
light and handy, I think that you make a good point that "basic fraud
detecting mechanism" is needed, but how to verify that such a
mechanism in an SPV wallet is good, and/or that the software and
version information provided by the server admins via the banner is
valid (being as it's not validated)? I have made a thread on this
conundrum. Which is posted here if you are interested.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157545.0
So as to avoid repeating stuff please read whole thead before
answering in it or posting back to list. It seems that there are
definitely unanswered questions...
I may open this up as an issue on https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum
about this stuff, but I wanted to post comment here also, for the record
.
>
>> If an attacker thinks he could get more than 25 BTC of
>> double-spends per block, he might even choose to mine with the
>> obsolete version in order to get predictable orphans and to trick
>> SPV clients and fully verifying wallets on the old version.
>
> This point is totally irrelevant. No matter there is a softfork or
> not, SPV users are always vulnerable to such double-spending attack
> if they blindly follow the longest chain AND accept 1-confirmation.
> The fiat currency system might be safer for them.
> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
> list bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
- --
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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📝 Original message:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Hello, (see my remarks below)
jl2012 via bitcoin-dev:
> Jonathan Toomim (Toomim Bros) via bitcoin-dev 於 2015-09-29 09:30 寫
> 到:
>> SPV clients will appear to behave normally, and will continue to
>> show new transactions and get confirmations in a timely fashion.
>> However, they will be systematically susceptible to attack from
>> double-spends that attempt to spend funds in a way that the
>> upgraded nodes will reject. These transactions will appear to
>> get 1 confirmation, then regress to zero conf, every single time.
>> These attacks can be performed for as long as someone mines with
>> the old version.
>
> 1. Who told you to accept 1-confirmation tx? Satoshi recommended 6
> confirmations in the whitepaper. Take your own risk if you do not
> follow his advice.
>
> 2. This is true only if your SPV client naively follows the
> longest chain without even looking at the block version. This might
> be good enough for the 1st generation SPV client, but future
> generations should at least have basic fraud detecting mechanism.
>
>
Regarding "basic fraud detecting mechanism" of which you speak, being
as I personally enjoy SPV for the time being (Electrum), and I know
that people will continue to keep using SPV wallets because they are
light and handy, I think that you make a good point that "basic fraud
detecting mechanism" is needed, but how to verify that such a
mechanism in an SPV wallet is good, and/or that the software and
version information provided by the server admins via the banner is
valid (being as it's not validated)? I have made a thread on this
conundrum. Which is posted here if you are interested.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157545.0
So as to avoid repeating stuff please read whole thead before
answering in it or posting back to list. It seems that there are
definitely unanswered questions...
I may open this up as an issue on https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum
about this stuff, but I wanted to post comment here also, for the record
.
>
>> If an attacker thinks he could get more than 25 BTC of
>> double-spends per block, he might even choose to mine with the
>> obsolete version in order to get predictable orphans and to trick
>> SPV clients and fully verifying wallets on the old version.
>
> This point is totally irrelevant. No matter there is a softfork or
> not, SPV users are always vulnerable to such double-spending attack
> if they blindly follow the longest chain AND accept 1-confirmation.
> The fiat currency system might be safer for them.
> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing
> list bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
- --
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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