SaberhagenTheNameless on Nostr: 💯 These are all the same points that I constantly go round and round with LN ...
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These are all the same points that I constantly go round and round with LN maxis. There are several metrics you can look at to see that LN is largely custodial users and so the full potential privacy benefits of LN don't apply to vast majority of it's users. That's obviously because of it's horrid UX of using privately.
1. "find my transaction" is a funny one because they are sort of right. If I'm using Wallet of Satoshi I'm pretty private from the general public, but that isn't the only threat. You're not private at all from Wallet of Satoshi, hackers/data leaks that get access to that centralized information (data breaches happen constantly), and governments that coerce WoS into giving them that info. It's similar privacy to a bank.
2. Very common misdirection tactic: Transactional privacy --> SoV
3. Yep pretty nuanced and depends how the person you're arguing with uses it.
4. "The market is right" as they often say. I think if Lightning started off with similar ease of sovereign UX (and default blinded paths) it would be probably be competitive with Monero on DNMs. But that still isnt the case and it would take a lot to change current inertia especially with Monero being able to support L2s soon.
5. High fees onchain translate to problems transacting on LN. This happens every time there is a high fee environment - like early last year for example.
ASINQ already tell us we have no privacy from them:
https://phoenix.acinq.co/faq#how-private-are-my-payments-on-phoenix
https://phoenix.acinq.co/privacy#lightning-privacy
Not sure if you've listened to this conversation about the nuances of LN vs Monero privacy with SuperTestNet and Luke Parker:
These are all the same points that I constantly go round and round with LN maxis. There are several metrics you can look at to see that LN is largely custodial users and so the full potential privacy benefits of LN don't apply to vast majority of it's users. That's obviously because of it's horrid UX of using privately.
1. "find my transaction" is a funny one because they are sort of right. If I'm using Wallet of Satoshi I'm pretty private from the general public, but that isn't the only threat. You're not private at all from Wallet of Satoshi, hackers/data leaks that get access to that centralized information (data breaches happen constantly), and governments that coerce WoS into giving them that info. It's similar privacy to a bank.
2. Very common misdirection tactic: Transactional privacy --> SoV
3. Yep pretty nuanced and depends how the person you're arguing with uses it.
4. "The market is right" as they often say. I think if Lightning started off with similar ease of sovereign UX (and default blinded paths) it would be probably be competitive with Monero on DNMs. But that still isnt the case and it would take a lot to change current inertia especially with Monero being able to support L2s soon.
5. High fees onchain translate to problems transacting on LN. This happens every time there is a high fee environment - like early last year for example.
ASINQ already tell us we have no privacy from them:
https://phoenix.acinq.co/faq#how-private-are-my-payments-on-phoenix
https://phoenix.acinq.co/privacy#lightning-privacy
Not sure if you've listened to this conversation about the nuances of LN vs Monero privacy with SuperTestNet and Luke Parker: