Steve Lee [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2023-05-10 🗒️ Summary of this message: A Core ...
📅 Original date posted:2023-05-10
🗒️ Summary of this message: A Core contributor expressed concern over the process for blocking Vasil as a maintainer and the potential inconsistency in reasons for blocking future maintainers.
📝 Original message:I see it was merged since my original post. I agree that is a very short
window of time. In particular, if a long-time Core contributor wasn't able
to attend the in-person meeting or last week's IRC meeting, they'd have had
to really been on the ball.
On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 10:22 AM Michael Folkson <
michaelfolkson at protonmail.com> wrote:
> > Blocking Vasil was discussed on a similar GitHub PR. Whether or not one
> agrees or disagrees, the same process is being used. Anyone can NACK and
> give a reason for Russ as well.
>
> With respect Steve the process for Vasil was keeping Vasil's PR open for
> up to 5 months with zero NACKs and two maintainers refusing to engage on
> why it wasn't being merged or what it needed for it to be merged. Followed
> by a later justification for blocking it that they've refused to discuss
> whether it applies to Russ.
>
> The process for Russ was the maintainers deciding privately there was a
> need for a maintainer "who understood our interfaces and modularization
> efforts well" and his PR was merged within 2 days.
>
> If that's the same process to you I don't know what to say. We have
> different perspectives on what constitutes a decision process.
>
> (I'm sure this is clear but just to reiterate in case it isn't none of
> this is a criticism of Russ.)
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
> --
> Michael Folkson
> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
> GPG: A2CF5D71603C92010659818D2A75D601B23FEE0F
>
> Learn about Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/@portofbitcoin
>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Wednesday, May 10th, 2023 at 17:36, Steve Lee <steven.j.lee at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Blocking Vasil was discussed on a similar GitHub PR. Whether or not one
> agrees or disagrees, the same process is being used. Anyone can NACK and
> give a reason for Russ as well.
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 8:55 AM Michael Folkson <
> michaelfolkson at protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve
>>
>> > Isn't this as simple as anyone (in particular Core project
>> contributors) can express their view in this PR?
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27604
>>
>> Nope. The extent to which the rationale for blocking Vasil as a
>> maintainer applies or doesn't apply to ryanofsky (or future potential
>> maintainers) isn't discussed. From now on the precedent is proposed
>> maintainers can be blocked for unknown and/or potentially inconsistent
>> reasons by the existing maintainers.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Michael
>>
>> --
>> Michael Folkson
>> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
>> GPG: A2CF5D71603C92010659818D2A75D601B23FEE0F
>>
>> Learn about Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/@portofbitcoin
>>
>> ------- Original Message -------
>> On Wednesday, May 10th, 2023 at 03:44, Steve Lee via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> Isn't this as simple as anyone (in particular Core project contributors)
>> can express their view in this PR?
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27604
>>
>> On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 5:03 AM Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 12:36 PM David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev <
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-05-06 21:03, Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>>>> > Essentially my concern is going forward current maintainers will
>>>> > decide which proposed new maintainers to add and which to block.
>>>>
>>>> This is how a large percentage of organizations are run. The current
>>>> members of a board or other governance group choose who will become a
>>>> new board member.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes but it's unrelated to what Bitcoin Core is-- a volunteer project of
>>> independent contributors merging different pull requests or patches. The
>>> github controls are merely because that is how github works. There is also
>>> a secondary issue of people tending to confuse Bitcoin Core with the
>>> bitcoin protocol in general:
>>> https://blog.lopp.net/who-controls-bitcoin-core/
>>>
>>> https://medium.com/@bergealex4/the-tao-of-bitcoin-development-ff093c6155cd
>>>
>>> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/a-primer-on-bitcoin-governance-or-why-developers-aren-t-in-charge-of-the-protocol-1473270427
>>>
>>> - Bryan
>>> https://twitter.com/kanzure
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>
>>
>
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🗒️ Summary of this message: A Core contributor expressed concern over the process for blocking Vasil as a maintainer and the potential inconsistency in reasons for blocking future maintainers.
📝 Original message:I see it was merged since my original post. I agree that is a very short
window of time. In particular, if a long-time Core contributor wasn't able
to attend the in-person meeting or last week's IRC meeting, they'd have had
to really been on the ball.
On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 10:22 AM Michael Folkson <
michaelfolkson at protonmail.com> wrote:
> > Blocking Vasil was discussed on a similar GitHub PR. Whether or not one
> agrees or disagrees, the same process is being used. Anyone can NACK and
> give a reason for Russ as well.
>
> With respect Steve the process for Vasil was keeping Vasil's PR open for
> up to 5 months with zero NACKs and two maintainers refusing to engage on
> why it wasn't being merged or what it needed for it to be merged. Followed
> by a later justification for blocking it that they've refused to discuss
> whether it applies to Russ.
>
> The process for Russ was the maintainers deciding privately there was a
> need for a maintainer "who understood our interfaces and modularization
> efforts well" and his PR was merged within 2 days.
>
> If that's the same process to you I don't know what to say. We have
> different perspectives on what constitutes a decision process.
>
> (I'm sure this is clear but just to reiterate in case it isn't none of
> this is a criticism of Russ.)
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
> --
> Michael Folkson
> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
> GPG: A2CF5D71603C92010659818D2A75D601B23FEE0F
>
> Learn about Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/@portofbitcoin
>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Wednesday, May 10th, 2023 at 17:36, Steve Lee <steven.j.lee at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Blocking Vasil was discussed on a similar GitHub PR. Whether or not one
> agrees or disagrees, the same process is being used. Anyone can NACK and
> give a reason for Russ as well.
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 8:55 AM Michael Folkson <
> michaelfolkson at protonmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve
>>
>> > Isn't this as simple as anyone (in particular Core project
>> contributors) can express their view in this PR?
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27604
>>
>> Nope. The extent to which the rationale for blocking Vasil as a
>> maintainer applies or doesn't apply to ryanofsky (or future potential
>> maintainers) isn't discussed. From now on the precedent is proposed
>> maintainers can be blocked for unknown and/or potentially inconsistent
>> reasons by the existing maintainers.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Michael
>>
>> --
>> Michael Folkson
>> Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
>> GPG: A2CF5D71603C92010659818D2A75D601B23FEE0F
>>
>> Learn about Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/@portofbitcoin
>>
>> ------- Original Message -------
>> On Wednesday, May 10th, 2023 at 03:44, Steve Lee via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> Isn't this as simple as anyone (in particular Core project contributors)
>> can express their view in this PR?
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27604
>>
>> On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 5:03 AM Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, May 7, 2023 at 12:36 PM David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev <
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-05-06 21:03, Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>>>> > Essentially my concern is going forward current maintainers will
>>>> > decide which proposed new maintainers to add and which to block.
>>>>
>>>> This is how a large percentage of organizations are run. The current
>>>> members of a board or other governance group choose who will become a
>>>> new board member.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes but it's unrelated to what Bitcoin Core is-- a volunteer project of
>>> independent contributors merging different pull requests or patches. The
>>> github controls are merely because that is how github works. There is also
>>> a secondary issue of people tending to confuse Bitcoin Core with the
>>> bitcoin protocol in general:
>>> https://blog.lopp.net/who-controls-bitcoin-core/
>>>
>>> https://medium.com/@bergealex4/the-tao-of-bitcoin-development-ff093c6155cd
>>>
>>> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/a-primer-on-bitcoin-governance-or-why-developers-aren-t-in-charge-of-the-protocol-1473270427
>>>
>>> - Bryan
>>> https://twitter.com/kanzure
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>
>>
>
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