Eric Lombrozo [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2015-02-22 📝 Original message:On Sunday, February 22, ...
📅 Original date posted:2015-02-22
📝 Original message:On Sunday, February 22, 2015, Peter Todd <pete at petertodd.org> wrote:
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> On 22 February 2015 08:41:56 GMT-05:00, Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >In case it wasn't clear in my earlier post, there's of course a third
> >possibility - namely, some outputs are kept but not all. Here, it is
> >generally impossible to tell whether the motivation was fee
> >replacement,
> >output replacement, or both. My proposal is to always treat these
> >instances
> >as output replacement and punish the sender. The sender needs to make
> >it
> >unambiguously clear it's only a fee replacement by creating a new
> >transaction that produces an output with the desired extra fee and then
> >adding an input that spends it to the original transaction.
>
> That's a really old idea - I proposed it about two years ago. The optimal
> way is to allow any txout to be replaced with one with an equal or greater
> nValue and same scriptPubKey, as well as additional txouts added.
> (obviously so long as none are removed)
>
>
That won't work because in general it is impossible to know which
transaction is the original. Did we add outputs to transaction A? Or remove
outputs from transaction B?
> Alas, there's lots of situations where this restricts you from doing
> useful things, for instance collapsing multiple payments into one by
> repeated updating to reduce tx size. Equally the benefit is marginal at
> best given how insecure unconfirmed transactions are - breaking what is
> already broken isn't a negative.
>
>
I think you're unnecessarily complicating use cases.
As for 0-conf security, there are instances where 0-conf transactions make
a lot of sense - i.e. paying for utilities, ISP, web hosting, or other such
services which could be immediately shut off upon detection of a
double-spend.
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📝 Original message:On Sunday, February 22, 2015, Peter Todd <pete at petertodd.org> wrote:
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> Hash: SHA256
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>
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> On 22 February 2015 08:41:56 GMT-05:00, Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >In case it wasn't clear in my earlier post, there's of course a third
> >possibility - namely, some outputs are kept but not all. Here, it is
> >generally impossible to tell whether the motivation was fee
> >replacement,
> >output replacement, or both. My proposal is to always treat these
> >instances
> >as output replacement and punish the sender. The sender needs to make
> >it
> >unambiguously clear it's only a fee replacement by creating a new
> >transaction that produces an output with the desired extra fee and then
> >adding an input that spends it to the original transaction.
>
> That's a really old idea - I proposed it about two years ago. The optimal
> way is to allow any txout to be replaced with one with an equal or greater
> nValue and same scriptPubKey, as well as additional txouts added.
> (obviously so long as none are removed)
>
>
That won't work because in general it is impossible to know which
transaction is the original. Did we add outputs to transaction A? Or remove
outputs from transaction B?
> Alas, there's lots of situations where this restricts you from doing
> useful things, for instance collapsing multiple payments into one by
> repeated updating to reduce tx size. Equally the benefit is marginal at
> best given how insecure unconfirmed transactions are - breaking what is
> already broken isn't a negative.
>
>
I think you're unnecessarily complicating use cases.
As for 0-conf security, there are instances where 0-conf transactions make
a lot of sense - i.e. paying for utilities, ISP, web hosting, or other such
services which could be immediately shut off upon detection of a
double-spend.
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