Alan Reiner [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2014-04-20 📝 Original message:Btw, I should clarify my ...
📅 Original date posted:2014-04-20
📝 Original message:Btw, I should clarify my email: I'm a staunch supporter of moving to
1e-6 BTC as the default unit for wallet applications, not necessarily
any particular name. I would be fine with "bits" as I think this
context is sufficiently different that it won't be confused by regular
consumers. But it wouldn't be my first choice. I don't know what my
first choice would be.
While writing this email, I asked my wife (who's been tired of hearing
about Bitcoin for two years), what she thinks of "bits", "microbes",
"micros". She said she is fine with any of them. Apparently microbes
reminders her of biology, not "germs". But she's also well-educated, so
she fine with milli, micro, kilo, etc... and apparently biology...
Whatever we call it. I'm happy to support it as long as it's 1e-6.
On 04/20/2014 12:23 PM, Erik Garrison wrote:
>
> The world is rapidly becoming a place in which a solid grasp of orders
> of magnitude could be considered a basic mathematical skill. People
> are very likely to learn what mBTC and µBTC are simply because they
> risk their money if they do not. This is not a bad thing and I think
> stands only to help people who learn about these monikers for orders
> of magnitude this way.
>
> Any appropriate nicknames for these denominations is sure to develop
> in due course. Promoting an already-overloaded term that could just
> as easily be applied colloquially to refer to a small amount of value
> in any currency seems problematic.
>
> I've been a staunch supporter of "microbitcoin" and would like to do
> anything I can to make sure that we jump directly to it if we're going
> to promote changing the default units. And I'm happy to integrate it
> into Armory as a default (with appropriate explanations and
> settings/options). I'm not so convinced about the "bits" name though
> -- I do like it, but I do also think that word is too overloaded.
> Though, I think we could get away with it.
>
> (Sadly, I still use "microbes" occasionally (as in *microb*itcoin)
> when I'm talking to coworkers, because it slips off the tongue and is
> actually a good combination of brevity and self-explanatory -- it just
> doesn't instill the right visuals...)
>
> We started integrating alternative units into Armory. But, of course,
> there were a few more loose ends than I expected, which will require
> some work. We want to put it in but not necessarily change the
> default right away. I'd /prefer/ we get some commitments from some
> other wallet developers, so we can make a unified push for it. I'm
> happy to lead that and make it default as long as I'm not the only one
> in the world doing it.
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
> On 04/20/2014 11:05 AM, Tamas Blummer wrote:
>> Here is an earlier reference to bits:
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg04248.html
>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04248.html>;
>>
>> I forgot that Alan Reiner was also supporting a unit equals to bits :
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg04264.html
>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04264.html>;
>>
>> and here the earlier going back to March 2013 and a poll at that time
>> pushing for XBT being 1 bit
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg04256.html
>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04256.html>;
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tamas Blummer
>> http://bitsofproof.com
>>
>> On 20.04.2014, at 16:53, Pieter Wuille <pieter.wuille at gmail.com
>> <mailto:pieter.wuille at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I told him specifically to bring it here (on a pull request for
>>> Bitcoin Core), as there is no point in making such convention changes
>>> to just one client.
>>>
>>> I wasn't aware of any discussion about the "bits" proposal here before.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Tamas Blummer
>>> <tamas at bitsofproof.com <mailto:tamas at bitsofproof.com>> wrote:
>>>> People on this list are mostly engineers who have no problem
>>>> dealing with
>>>> magnitudes and have rather limited empathy for people who have a
>>>> problem
>>>> with them.
>>>> They also tend to think, that because they invented money 2.0 they
>>>> would not
>>>> need to care of finance's or people's current customs.
>>>>
>>>> The importance of their decisions in these questions will fade as
>>>> people
>>>> already use wallets other than the core.
>>>>
>>>> Bring this particular discussion elsewhere, to the wallet developer.
>>>>
>>>> BTW the topic was discussed here several times, you have my support
>>>> and Jeff
>>>> Garzik's.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Tamas Blummer
>>>> http://bitsofproof.com
>>>>
>>>> On 20.04.2014, at 15:15, Rob Golding <rob.golding at astutium.com>
>>>> <mailto:rob.golding at astutium.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The average person is not going to be confident that the prefix they
>>>> are using is the correct one,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The use of any 'prefix' is one of choice and entirely unnecessary,
>>>> and there
>>>> are already established 'divisions' in u/mBTC for those that feel
>>>> they need
>>>> to use such things.
>>>>
>>>> people WILL send 1000x more or less than
>>>> intended if we go down this road,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exceptionally unlikely - I deal every day with currencies with 0, 2
>>>> and 3
>>>> dp's in amount ranging from 'under 1 whole unit' to tens of
>>>> thousands - Not
>>>> once in 20 years has anyone ever 'sent' more or less than intended
>>>> - oh,
>>>> they've 'intended' to underpay just fine, but never *unintended*.
>>>>
>>>> I propose that users are offered a preference to denominate the
>>>> Bitcoin currency in a unit called a bit. Where one bitcoin (BTC)
>>>> equals one million bits (bits) and one bit equals 100 satoshis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I propose that for people unable to understand what a bitcoin is,
>>>> they can
>>>> just use satoshi's and drop this entire proposal.
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases
>>>> and their
>>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases
>>>> and their
>>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
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📝 Original message:Btw, I should clarify my email: I'm a staunch supporter of moving to
1e-6 BTC as the default unit for wallet applications, not necessarily
any particular name. I would be fine with "bits" as I think this
context is sufficiently different that it won't be confused by regular
consumers. But it wouldn't be my first choice. I don't know what my
first choice would be.
While writing this email, I asked my wife (who's been tired of hearing
about Bitcoin for two years), what she thinks of "bits", "microbes",
"micros". She said she is fine with any of them. Apparently microbes
reminders her of biology, not "germs". But she's also well-educated, so
she fine with milli, micro, kilo, etc... and apparently biology...
Whatever we call it. I'm happy to support it as long as it's 1e-6.
On 04/20/2014 12:23 PM, Erik Garrison wrote:
>
> The world is rapidly becoming a place in which a solid grasp of orders
> of magnitude could be considered a basic mathematical skill. People
> are very likely to learn what mBTC and µBTC are simply because they
> risk their money if they do not. This is not a bad thing and I think
> stands only to help people who learn about these monikers for orders
> of magnitude this way.
>
> Any appropriate nicknames for these denominations is sure to develop
> in due course. Promoting an already-overloaded term that could just
> as easily be applied colloquially to refer to a small amount of value
> in any currency seems problematic.
>
> I've been a staunch supporter of "microbitcoin" and would like to do
> anything I can to make sure that we jump directly to it if we're going
> to promote changing the default units. And I'm happy to integrate it
> into Armory as a default (with appropriate explanations and
> settings/options). I'm not so convinced about the "bits" name though
> -- I do like it, but I do also think that word is too overloaded.
> Though, I think we could get away with it.
>
> (Sadly, I still use "microbes" occasionally (as in *microb*itcoin)
> when I'm talking to coworkers, because it slips off the tongue and is
> actually a good combination of brevity and self-explanatory -- it just
> doesn't instill the right visuals...)
>
> We started integrating alternative units into Armory. But, of course,
> there were a few more loose ends than I expected, which will require
> some work. We want to put it in but not necessarily change the
> default right away. I'd /prefer/ we get some commitments from some
> other wallet developers, so we can make a unified push for it. I'm
> happy to lead that and make it default as long as I'm not the only one
> in the world doing it.
>
> -Alan
>
>
>
> On 04/20/2014 11:05 AM, Tamas Blummer wrote:
>> Here is an earlier reference to bits:
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg04248.html
>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04248.html>;
>>
>> I forgot that Alan Reiner was also supporting a unit equals to bits :
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg04264.html
>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04264.html>;
>>
>> and here the earlier going back to March 2013 and a poll at that time
>> pushing for XBT being 1 bit
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg04256.html
>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04256.html>;
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tamas Blummer
>> http://bitsofproof.com
>>
>> On 20.04.2014, at 16:53, Pieter Wuille <pieter.wuille at gmail.com
>> <mailto:pieter.wuille at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I told him specifically to bring it here (on a pull request for
>>> Bitcoin Core), as there is no point in making such convention changes
>>> to just one client.
>>>
>>> I wasn't aware of any discussion about the "bits" proposal here before.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Tamas Blummer
>>> <tamas at bitsofproof.com <mailto:tamas at bitsofproof.com>> wrote:
>>>> People on this list are mostly engineers who have no problem
>>>> dealing with
>>>> magnitudes and have rather limited empathy for people who have a
>>>> problem
>>>> with them.
>>>> They also tend to think, that because they invented money 2.0 they
>>>> would not
>>>> need to care of finance's or people's current customs.
>>>>
>>>> The importance of their decisions in these questions will fade as
>>>> people
>>>> already use wallets other than the core.
>>>>
>>>> Bring this particular discussion elsewhere, to the wallet developer.
>>>>
>>>> BTW the topic was discussed here several times, you have my support
>>>> and Jeff
>>>> Garzik's.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Tamas Blummer
>>>> http://bitsofproof.com
>>>>
>>>> On 20.04.2014, at 15:15, Rob Golding <rob.golding at astutium.com>
>>>> <mailto:rob.golding at astutium.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The average person is not going to be confident that the prefix they
>>>> are using is the correct one,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The use of any 'prefix' is one of choice and entirely unnecessary,
>>>> and there
>>>> are already established 'divisions' in u/mBTC for those that feel
>>>> they need
>>>> to use such things.
>>>>
>>>> people WILL send 1000x more or less than
>>>> intended if we go down this road,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exceptionally unlikely - I deal every day with currencies with 0, 2
>>>> and 3
>>>> dp's in amount ranging from 'under 1 whole unit' to tens of
>>>> thousands - Not
>>>> once in 20 years has anyone ever 'sent' more or less than intended
>>>> - oh,
>>>> they've 'intended' to underpay just fine, but never *unintended*.
>>>>
>>>> I propose that users are offered a preference to denominate the
>>>> Bitcoin currency in a unit called a bit. Where one bitcoin (BTC)
>>>> equals one million bits (bits) and one bit equals 100 satoshis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I propose that for people unable to understand what a bitcoin is,
>>>> they can
>>>> just use satoshi's and drop this entire proposal.
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases
>>>> and their
>>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases
>>>> and their
>>>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>>>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> <mailto:Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
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