Jeremy [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2020-08-21 📝 Original message:Actually we already have ...
📅 Original date posted:2020-08-21
📝 Original message:Actually we already have service bits (which are sadly limited) which allow
negotiation of non bilateral feature support, so this would supercede that.
--
@JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>;
<https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>;
On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:45 PM Matt Corallo <lf-lists at mattcorallo.com>
wrote:
> This seems to be pretty overengineered. Do you have a specific use-case in
> mind for anything more than simply continuing
> the pattern we've been using of sending a message indicating support for a
> given feature? If we find some in the future,
> we could deploy something like this, though the current proposal makes it
> possible to do it on a per-feature case.
>
> The great thing about Suhas' proposal is the diff is about -1/+1 (not
> including tests), while still getting all the
> flexibility we need. Even better, the code already exists.
>
> Matt
>
> On 8/21/20 3:50 PM, Jeremy wrote:
> > I have a proposal:
> >
> > Protocol >= 70016 cease to send or process VERACK, and instead use
> HANDSHAKEACK, which is completed after feature
> > negotiation.
> >
> > This should make everyone happy/unhappy, as in a new protocol number
> it's fair game to change these semantics to be
> > clear that we're acking more than version.
> >
> > I don't care about when or where these messages are sequenced overall,
> it seems to have minimal impact. If I had free
> > choice, I slightly agree with Eric that verack should come before
> feature negotiation, as we want to divorce the idea
> > that protocol number and feature support are tied.
> >
> > But once this is done, we can supplant Verack with HANDSHAKENACK or
> HANDSHAKEACK to signal success or failure to agree
> > on a connection. A NACK reason (version too high/low or an important
> feature missing) could be optional. Implicit NACK
> > would be disconnecting, but is discouraged because a peer doesn't know
> if it should reconnect or the failure was
> > intentional.
> >
> > ------
> >
> > AJ: I think I generally do prefer to have a FEATURE wrapper as you
> suggested, or a rule that all messages in this period
> > are interpreted as features (and may be redundant with p2p message types
> -- so you can literally just use the p2p
> > message name w/o any data).
> >
> > I think we would want a semantic (which could be based just on message
> names, but first-class support would be nice) for
> > ACKing that a feature is enabled. This is because a transcript of:
> >
> > NODE0:
> > FEATURE A
> > FEATURE B
> > VERACK
> >
> > NODE1:
> > FEATURE A
> > VERACK
> >
> > It remains unclear if Node 1 ignored B because it's an unknown feature,
> or because it is disabled. A transcript like:
> >
> > NODE0:
> > FEATURE A
> > FEATURE B
> > FEATURE C
> > ACK A
> > VERACK
> >
> > NODE1:
> > FEATURE A
> > ACK A
> > NACK B
> > VERACK
> >
> > would make it clear that A and B are known, B is disabled, and C is
> unknown. C has 0 support, B Node 0 should support
> > inbound messages but knows not to send to Node 1, and A has full
> bilateral support. Maybe instead it could a message
> > FEATURE SEND A and FEATURE RECV A, so we can make the split explicit
> rather than inferred from ACK/NACK.
> >
> >
> > ------
> >
> > I'd also propose that we add a message which is SYNC, which indicates
> the end of a list of FEATURES and a request to
> > send ACKS or NACKS back (which are followed by a SYNC). This allows
> multi-round negotiation where based on the presence
> > of other features, I may expand the set of features I am offering. I
> think you could do without SYNC, but there are more
> > edge cases and the explicitness is nice given that this already
> introduces future complexity.
> >
> > This multi-round makes it an actual negotiation rather than a pure
> announcement system. I don't think it would be used
> > much in the near term, but it makes sense to define it correctly now.
> Build for the future and all...
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > @JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin><;
> https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>;
>
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📝 Original message:Actually we already have service bits (which are sadly limited) which allow
negotiation of non bilateral feature support, so this would supercede that.
--
@JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>;
<https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>;
On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:45 PM Matt Corallo <lf-lists at mattcorallo.com>
wrote:
> This seems to be pretty overengineered. Do you have a specific use-case in
> mind for anything more than simply continuing
> the pattern we've been using of sending a message indicating support for a
> given feature? If we find some in the future,
> we could deploy something like this, though the current proposal makes it
> possible to do it on a per-feature case.
>
> The great thing about Suhas' proposal is the diff is about -1/+1 (not
> including tests), while still getting all the
> flexibility we need. Even better, the code already exists.
>
> Matt
>
> On 8/21/20 3:50 PM, Jeremy wrote:
> > I have a proposal:
> >
> > Protocol >= 70016 cease to send or process VERACK, and instead use
> HANDSHAKEACK, which is completed after feature
> > negotiation.
> >
> > This should make everyone happy/unhappy, as in a new protocol number
> it's fair game to change these semantics to be
> > clear that we're acking more than version.
> >
> > I don't care about when or where these messages are sequenced overall,
> it seems to have minimal impact. If I had free
> > choice, I slightly agree with Eric that verack should come before
> feature negotiation, as we want to divorce the idea
> > that protocol number and feature support are tied.
> >
> > But once this is done, we can supplant Verack with HANDSHAKENACK or
> HANDSHAKEACK to signal success or failure to agree
> > on a connection. A NACK reason (version too high/low or an important
> feature missing) could be optional. Implicit NACK
> > would be disconnecting, but is discouraged because a peer doesn't know
> if it should reconnect or the failure was
> > intentional.
> >
> > ------
> >
> > AJ: I think I generally do prefer to have a FEATURE wrapper as you
> suggested, or a rule that all messages in this period
> > are interpreted as features (and may be redundant with p2p message types
> -- so you can literally just use the p2p
> > message name w/o any data).
> >
> > I think we would want a semantic (which could be based just on message
> names, but first-class support would be nice) for
> > ACKing that a feature is enabled. This is because a transcript of:
> >
> > NODE0:
> > FEATURE A
> > FEATURE B
> > VERACK
> >
> > NODE1:
> > FEATURE A
> > VERACK
> >
> > It remains unclear if Node 1 ignored B because it's an unknown feature,
> or because it is disabled. A transcript like:
> >
> > NODE0:
> > FEATURE A
> > FEATURE B
> > FEATURE C
> > ACK A
> > VERACK
> >
> > NODE1:
> > FEATURE A
> > ACK A
> > NACK B
> > VERACK
> >
> > would make it clear that A and B are known, B is disabled, and C is
> unknown. C has 0 support, B Node 0 should support
> > inbound messages but knows not to send to Node 1, and A has full
> bilateral support. Maybe instead it could a message
> > FEATURE SEND A and FEATURE RECV A, so we can make the split explicit
> rather than inferred from ACK/NACK.
> >
> >
> > ------
> >
> > I'd also propose that we add a message which is SYNC, which indicates
> the end of a list of FEATURES and a request to
> > send ACKS or NACKS back (which are followed by a SYNC). This allows
> multi-round negotiation where based on the presence
> > of other features, I may expand the set of features I am offering. I
> think you could do without SYNC, but there are more
> > edge cases and the explicitness is nice given that this already
> introduces future complexity.
> >
> > This multi-round makes it an actual negotiation rather than a pure
> announcement system. I don't think it would be used
> > much in the near term, but it makes sense to define it correctly now.
> Build for the future and all...
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > @JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin><;
> https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>;
>
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