Allen Piscitello [ARCHIVE] on Nostr: 📅 Original date posted:2015-02-12 📝 Original message:Nothing will stop that. ...
📅 Original date posted:2015-02-12
📝 Original message:Nothing will stop that. Bitcoin needs to deal with those issues, not stick
our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist out of benevolence.
This isn't a pet solution, but the rules of the protocol and what is
realistically possible given the nature of distributed consensus. Relying
on altruism is a recipe for failure.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Justus Ranvier <justusranvier at riseup.net>
wrote:
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> On 02/12/2015 07:15 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:
> > I'll add fuel to the fire here, and express that I believe that
> > replace-by-fee is good in the long-term. Peter is not breaking
> > the zero-conf, it was already broken, and not admitting it creates
> > a false sense of security. I don't want to see systems that are
> > built on the assumption that zero-conf tx are safe solely because
> > it has always appeared safe. You can argue about rational miner
> > behaviors all day, but in a decentralized system you have no idea
> > what miners consider rational, or speculate about their incentives.
> >
> As noted elsewhere in the thread, there are two problems with this
> analysis:
>
> 1. It asserts that zero-confirmation transactions are in a binary
> state of safe/broken instead of recognizing that relying on them is a
> non-binary risk analysis on the part of a merchant.
>
> 2. Assumptions about what is profitable for miners are based on all
> miners having short time horizons for calculating profits.
>
> In addition, I'll add that there is an assumption that honest actors
> can not alter their behavior in response to changing conditions.
>
> Since scorched-earth solutions to problems are apparently acceptable
> now, what would stop more honest node operators from patching their
> nodes to blacklist any peer that relays replace-by-fee transactions,
> and maybe even publish an IP address list of those peers?
>
> Punishing Bitcoin users for not adopting somebody's pet solution to a
> problem neither responsible nor ethical.
>
> Child-pays-for-parent allows for stuck transactions to be cleared from
> the mempool, and allows recipients of zero-conf transactions to adjust
> their risk exposure as much or as little as they like.
>
> It's a solution that gives Bitcoin users more freedom, instead of
> trying to coerce them into pre-determined directions.
>
> - --
> Support online privacy by using email encryption whenever possible.
> Learn how here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bakOKJFtB-k
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website,
> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is
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> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a
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> _______________________________________________
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📝 Original message:Nothing will stop that. Bitcoin needs to deal with those issues, not stick
our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist out of benevolence.
This isn't a pet solution, but the rules of the protocol and what is
realistically possible given the nature of distributed consensus. Relying
on altruism is a recipe for failure.
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Justus Ranvier <justusranvier at riseup.net>
wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 02/12/2015 07:15 PM, Alan Reiner wrote:
> > I'll add fuel to the fire here, and express that I believe that
> > replace-by-fee is good in the long-term. Peter is not breaking
> > the zero-conf, it was already broken, and not admitting it creates
> > a false sense of security. I don't want to see systems that are
> > built on the assumption that zero-conf tx are safe solely because
> > it has always appeared safe. You can argue about rational miner
> > behaviors all day, but in a decentralized system you have no idea
> > what miners consider rational, or speculate about their incentives.
> >
> As noted elsewhere in the thread, there are two problems with this
> analysis:
>
> 1. It asserts that zero-confirmation transactions are in a binary
> state of safe/broken instead of recognizing that relying on them is a
> non-binary risk analysis on the part of a merchant.
>
> 2. Assumptions about what is profitable for miners are based on all
> miners having short time horizons for calculating profits.
>
> In addition, I'll add that there is an assumption that honest actors
> can not alter their behavior in response to changing conditions.
>
> Since scorched-earth solutions to problems are apparently acceptable
> now, what would stop more honest node operators from patching their
> nodes to blacklist any peer that relays replace-by-fee transactions,
> and maybe even publish an IP address list of those peers?
>
> Punishing Bitcoin users for not adopting somebody's pet solution to a
> problem neither responsible nor ethical.
>
> Child-pays-for-parent allows for stuck transactions to be cleared from
> the mempool, and allows recipients of zero-conf transactions to adjust
> their risk exposure as much or as little as they like.
>
> It's a solution that gives Bitcoin users more freedom, instead of
> trying to coerce them into pre-determined directions.
>
> - --
> Support online privacy by using email encryption whenever possible.
> Learn how here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bakOKJFtB-k
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> =kEMr
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website,
> sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is
> your
> hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
> leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a
> look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
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